What if : the game was balanced around TT?

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JevelFaithful

Senior Member

02-11-2013

A thread in GD made me think. What if the game was designed around 3v3?

In the unviable classes : ADC would all need some more tankyness (still squishyness but jsut enough to not explode), probably also a dash and/or peel.
Someone like Ez might be the standard. Vayne might be a good exemple of what we'd have : not afraid to close range fighting, tmble + codemn + stun in the jungle. Perfect. She's just need some early power to not get eaten too easily.

Imagine Ashe : she's totaly unviable now. What if she had slow on Q, W the same, ult the same long stun+slow. The main change being her E might be a "spamable" stun. Maibe a conditionnal stun if the target is frosted.

MAges would probably need the same things : mobility, zone control, burst.

Bruisers would probably not need as many gap closer as they have now.

With those : what do you think of that kind of team : 1ap-semitanky giving aoe and control +1ad giving the bulk of the damage like in SR + 1 true bruiser. And one of those member gets to hav ea bit more utility playing the support-y role. Still having exp and gold, but just a bit more reliant on utility than straight up gold.

Anyway, it's just a few ideas that popped to my head. What do you think? Any other musing?


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TrenixPL

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Senior Member

02-11-2013

I've played 3v3 since the day it came out and it's way more strategic than 5v5 by FAR. I keep hearing arguments about this game being only balanced for 5v5. That's just a load of garbage. Now I've switched over to 5v5 ranked, being that I was forced to since there is no solo/duo queue for 3v3. I've got to admit, the 5v5 map designed is pretty bad. Being that the map design is horrible, some champions become more viable than in 3v3. For example...

1) The map is huge, fast movement speed champions get a huge advantage. Jungling also becomes a requirement because it would be so obvious when someone is missing in their lane to gank, besides the fact that it takes a pretty long time to reach another lane.
2) Top and bottom lane are wide, giving ranged DPS more flexibility and heavily cripple skill shot champions. This is why ranged DPS suffer in 3v3, because the lanes are much thinner.

So that's the issues with the map, to add fuel to the fire Riot has a misconception that because it's 5v5, champions need to be buffed up with HP and defenses so they don't die as much. This is why we have fighters which are also known as bruisers. However, the only champion that should be able to handle 5 champions attacking them at one time should be a tank. Apparently Riot doesn't agree and this is why fighters are overpowered in 5v5 as well as 3v3, being that they tank and DPS at the same time. Whether you like it or not, any champion who's focus fired should be killed instantly but that wont ever change because too many people would whine about it.

Most champions which are overpowered in 3v3, are just as overpowered in 5v5. In 3v3 it's just more visible to see it because there are less champions in the equation. I think 5v5 needs to be redesigned and the game should be balanced to 3v3 standards, it would be much more interesting and strategic then. I also was laughing when I saw how Olaf was dominating in the championship. Us Twisted Treeline players knew he was overpowered since forever.


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Shinzo Ningen

Member

02-11-2013

Another thing to note is that getting fed in 3v3 puts your team ahead more than getting fed in 5v5. Mainly because your team will have less time to recover from something like that.

But, more to the topic, Riot won't balance the game to TT as the official mode of the world tourneys are SR. Game balance changes made for TT will affect late game SR more than you'd expect. This will break the 5v5 map and teams will then proceed to lose if you weren't play champion X or Y wasn't on your team.


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TrenixPL

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Senior Member

02-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinzo Ningen View Post
Another thing to note is that getting fed in 3v3 puts your team ahead more than getting fed in 5v5. Mainly because your team will have less time to recover from something like that.
This quote shows that you're inexperienced in Twisted Treeline. In 3v3 it's very easy to turn the tables, while in 5v5 it's almost impossible. I've been in way too many 3v3 games where the odds were against me and I still managed to win, even with one man short. However, it's 5v5 there is a snowball effect. Almost always once a team gets the advantage, their kills start multiplying. I highly advise you to stop listening to the majority and start opening up your eyes. Way too many 5v5 players give 3v3 a bad name because they're stubborn and can't respect any other gameplay besides the original DOTA 5v5 setup.


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KakeManz

Senior Member

02-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrenixPL View Post
This quote shows that you're inexperienced in Twisted Treeline. In 3v3 it's very easy to turn the tables, while in 5v5 it's almost impossible. I've been in way too many 3v3 games where the odds were against me and I still managed to win, even with one man short. However, it's 5v5 there is a snowball effect. Almost always once a team gets the advantage, their kills start multiplying. I highly advise you to stop listening to the majority and start opening up your eyes. Way too many 5v5 players give 3v3 a bad name because they're stubborn and can't respect any other gameplay besides the original DOTA 5v5 setup.
I agree with this to an extent.

In either mode there's always a point where the game is utterly hopeless because the wrong person got fed, however it is easier to turn the tables on a 3v3 because well, it's only 3 people, it's easier to drive 3 away from your nexus than it is 5 by yourself.

The thing I like about TT is that, correct me if I'm wrong, but there are no real established "roles" in the mode. Like yeah, you need some ad and some ap and bulk all around but other than that you can pick most anything you want as long as they can do damage. It's not like going into a SR game and in select you got people calling "TOP" "MID" "ADC PLZ"

And many disagree with me but I think the altars are pretty cool. They are great to force a fight if you want to since it always gives vision, and if the other team doesn't come you have a buff. Also it's a true test to show whether a team is actually turning things around or not. An example from a 3v3 ranked team I did tonight: We were losing bad, enemy team had both altars most of the game. All of a sudden we start beating them in team fights despite them having an extra 10% ap and ad, at that moment we knew we had won. All it took from there was one ace, we cleaned up both altars and won shortly after.


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JevelFaithful

Senior Member

02-11-2013

@Kake : It seems that outside of straight 5v5 teamfights, a lot of roles go away. Even in dom, the game is about skirmishes and not team fights so it's impossible to really specialize. The fact the other 2 maps are more homogenous than Sr helps too probably.

It's very interesting to hear about 3v3, but I was curious what you guys tought would be different in a game where 3v3 would be the main focus of the game.