ADC Kennen Viable for S3, or is Caitlyn just generally better? *Numbers included

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Spexray

Senior Member

02-10-2013

Every piece of Mercurial Scimitar is still overpriced for the end result in my opinion.

Kennen has the SAME RANGE AS ALMOST ANY OTHER AD CARRY. There's a list in the OP, it was edited in after like the third post so you mighta missed it, but you ADMITTED that you didn't read the original post, so please take the time to do so before you keep bashing my ideas. I have counterpoints to a lot of your ideas, and you may find that I AGREE WITH YOU that most of the time, Caitlyn is stronger. I'm just trying to point out that in certain circumstances, Kennen is an appropriate and viable pick.

Again, I discussed the difference between their gap-closers/escapes in the OP. Also, keep in mind that Kennen's escape, even though it can't go over walls and isn't instant, COVERS MORE GROUND IN A STRAIGHT LINE, CAN BE CANCELLED AT ANY TIME DURING ITS DURATION TO REACTIVATE AA, AND IS DEFINITELY MORE RESPONSIVE THAN MF, DRAVEN, OR TWITCH'S ESCAPES.


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Spexray

Senior Member

02-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CerealBoxOfDoom View Post
ahri kills kennen easily. Even if he somehow survives she can escape or just charm to waste his stun and kill him with her abilities off cooldown. Kennen has a better shot as onhit or mage against ahri

Edit: also ahri is a hybrid mage assassin. She doesnt do excessive damage, she does enough and makes sure it happens. She is much harder to counter than leblanc or talon.

Edit again: lost what i was typing...

anyways cait can do more when ahri gets the drop on her than kennen can. Kennen can't afford to get ambushed ever. The QSS i mentioned earlier was just 1 example of how he gets countered
Ahri's faily irrelevant and will never really be seen in ranked play until either she gets buffed or everyone else gets nerfed. All of her scaling's are really low, except on her Q, which needs to hit BOTH DIRECTIONS to actually scale well. She's a fun champ, but she's really really really weak right now, and between having 2 skillshots (one of them extremely thin, and one that has to hit you AND boomerang hit you) and 2 spells that "prioritize nearest targets", her already underpowering damage isn't even RELIABLE underpowering damage. Talon can teleport in, targetted one shot the adc while silencing them so they can't use an escape, then go invisible and rofl away. Compare that to the extremely unlikely occurance that all of Ahri's spells ACTUALLY hit the same target, and her target still having over 1/3 health.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

02-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spexray View Post
Ahri's faily irrelevant and will never really be seen in ranked play until either she gets buffed or everyone else gets nerfed. All of her scaling's are really low, except on her Q, which needs to hit BOTH DIRECTIONS to actually scale well. She's a fun champ, but she's really really really weak right now, and between having 2 skillshots (one of them extremely thin, and one that has to hit you AND boomerang hit you) and 2 spells that "prioritize nearest targets", her already underpowering damage isn't even RELIABLE underpowering damage. Talon can teleport in, targetted one shot the adc while silencing them so they can't use an escape, then go invisible and rofl away. Compare that to the extremely unlikely occurance that all of Ahri's spells ACTUALLY hit the same target, and her target still having over 1/3 health.
Ahri is viable at all levels of play
even if she wasn't that would just make it worse for kennen who she can infact deal with
and its not as hard as you think to land those shorts nor to deal with talon.

speaking of talon she's one of the few that are likely to kill him while he's invisible if he uses it to escape.

Prioritizing the nearest targets isnt a big deal especially when the proc single target onspell with full force (see wiki if you want to question this).

She actually performs well even at tournament level but her strongest use ive seen is as a counter to "protection comps" (protect the kog etcetc)

even if you call her irrelevant (because youre a heretic) kennen has no solid response to her or any similar champ you consider more relevant. Kennen cant do much about leblink or talon. Cait can at least try and can finish them off if they run. (partially due to the nature of her skills partially due to the fact she actually scales primarily with AD)


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Spexray

Senior Member

02-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CerealBoxOfDoom View Post
Ahri is viable at all levels of play
even if she wasn't that would just make it worse for kennen who she can infact deal with
and its not as hard as you think to land those shorts nor to deal with talon.

speaking of talon she's one of the few that are likely to kill him while he's invisible if he uses it to escape.

Prioritizing the nearest targets isnt a big deal especially when the proc single target onspell with full force (see wiki if you want to question this).

She actually performs well even at tournament level but her strongest use ive seen is as a counter to "protection comps" (protect the kog etcetc)

even if you call her irrelevant (because youre a heretic) kennen has no solid response to her or any similar champ you consider more relevant. Kennen cant do much about leblink or talon. Cait can at least try and can finish them off if they run. (partially due to the nature of her skills partially due to the fact she actually scales primarily with AD)
I actually did find out about Ahri's Foxfire's proccing single target on RCS/Spell Vamp the other day while looking at her scalings and complaining to a friend about how she needs a buff. Do you really disagree that Ahri needs a couple of buffs to her scaling?

Also Kennen has his ult which is a counter to any assassin that tries to get close.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

02-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spexray View Post
I actually did find out about Ahri's Foxfire's proccing single target on RCS/Spell Vamp the other day while looking at her scalings and complaining to a friend about how she needs a buff. Do you really disagree that Ahri needs a couple of buffs to her scaling?
ahri needs no buffs.

But ahri also deserves all the buffs.
no bias whatsoever
/ahri fancult banner

Ahri's ratios and the onhit abilities can actually get very out of hand. So much so that I, someone who mains ahri, had no idea what people were talking about when they mentioned the AD brusier meta. I honestly didn't notice it till I got cass and started learning anivia so id have some alterantive, pure mage picks aside from syndra.

Thing is, you have to remember that ahri is two things at all times.

the assassin does good damage but she does it very hard and very often. You won't escape in time you wont resist hard enough. She doesnt have to land her ult damage to kill you. She will burst you and nuke you afterwards if you don't die. often times can't take any risks against her unless youre stacking MR and even then shes got that true damage. Deathcap voidstaff dfg. not even lategame vayne is ready for that WITH someone there to protect her.

The mage spreads the love out dealing tons of bonus damage rapidly changing her positoin showering the enemies with true damage and explosive bonus damage. Whats more is her ult also procs single target level effects. She can proc any onspell as many as 12 times and deal scaling true damage with no diminishing returns. Ryalais + liandries... thought katarina was bad? just wait till your whole team is moving at a snails pace melting fast with no chance of catching the perpetrator. At least kat gives you a chance and doesnt follow up with one of the nastiest AoE nukes in the game.

The hybrid mage/assassin works around your strategy with ease loosening your grip on reality by breaking all the rules. She pushes your lane yet never over extends. She steals the buff without concequence. She counters your trick with a trick of her own. She has two skillshots, but she is very well compensated as you may see when she lanes against socalled countermids/countermages (kassadin, talon, pantheon, katarina, she can hang with the lot of them)

Ahri counters none and is countered by none. Her kit fits into this game in such a way that I could only explain that she scales with summoner skill and her ratios in that regard are amazing. Her AP ratios are how they are so that she has an option to build for power OR otherwise in exchange for not being forced to stay fed or fall off. Her skillset allows control like few other champs can offer and a sort of gamelong versitility (if she cant beat your laning phase she'll just compete with you in another way. She can do everything. Pushing, ganking, zoning, comboing, bypassing strategic defenses, she will find a way.)

Tl;DR

I cant really see why ahri would NEED a buff.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

02-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spexray View Post
Also Kennen has his ult which is a counter to any assassin that tries to get close.
Unless he has a stack on her before she approaches him he's gonna die. The AoE is 550 range
ahri isnt there to autoattack, she doesn have to use her ult to deal damage specifically which is a common misconception.


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Spexray

Senior Member

02-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CerealBoxOfDoom View Post
ahri needs no buffs.

Tl;DR

I cant really see why ahri would NEED a buff.
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Ahri
You can see the numbers there. Compare them to Ryze's scaling, and the fact that not only once you are targetted by Ryze, you're getting his full combo without chance to miss, but he actually SCALES BETTER WITH AP despite the fact that Riot made his AP scaling so low that he is encouraged to build Mana for damage instead. Now please take your irrelevant Ahri chatter somewhere else, I'm sick of you polluting my thread with it. You should make an Ahri thread explaining why she needs a buff and I'll be there supporting. You are an Ahri main and should be able to bring some points to the unnecessarily low scaling on Ahri's abilities. Otherwise let's bring the topic back to Caitlyn and Kennen.


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Gift of God

Junior Member

02-10-2013

You're comparing Caitlyn to AD Kennen... Yet your whole basis is just AA, which you compare both the passives. You ignore the fact that when Kennen's passive procs you just land a Q and press W. BOOM stunned Caitlyn. Stunned Cait= free damage for kennen. Thats pre 6 anyways. post 6 u just ult and it makes it a whole lot easier.... also AD Kennen doesnt have mana problems, compared to Cait..

In teamfights Kennen has the E to escape/chase down and offers cc, compared to Cait which just attacks from the back. tries to land her Q(which stops her from AA). and her Ult on someone whos running away.


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BossNav

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Junior Member

02-10-2013

first game a played ad ken i went 27/4/11
i think its viable


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Invictrix

Senior Member

02-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spexray View Post
Was he actually designed as an ADC? It'd be pretty cool if Q scaled AD.

On another note, I included some notes on his attack range.
Well back when Kennen was created the meta wasn't quite as defined, his auto attack range was longer and ad ratios were less common than they are now.

Overall he is a better top than a mid or adc.


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