Wooglet's is OP, Black Cleaver is why it has to stay OP; the stagnation of Dom

12
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

General Quackers

Senior Member

02-09-2013

Wooglet's was buffed because AP champs couldn't compete with AD bursiers/caster w/e you want to call them. AP champs couldn't compete with them because S3 brought huge changes that made life extremely easy for AD champs: armor is more expensive, mixing flat and percentage ArP is more effective, and they got Black Cleaver to really emphasize the power difference.

In response, Deathcap's Dominion replacement, Wooglet's Witchcap, was buffed to be easier to build into, it also has Deathcap's famous AP boosting passive as well as Zhonya's famous 2sec stasis active. Wooglet's was turned into Zhonya's Ring, an item that was long removed from the game because it offered a massive power swing against melee AD champs in just one item.

Wooglet's Witchcap is an OP item. A mage before and after this item is like night and day, it's like the difference between being armed with a pellet gun and being armed with a deagle. Wooglet's offers the largest offensive power boost for AP champs while also offering the most significant defensive power boost for squishy champs. It's OP; and there's really not much more to say on that matter.

Is it bad that it's OP though? Is it Wooglet's fault that it's OP? Is it the fault of AP champs that they need an OP item to compete against the Black Cleaver crowd? The truth of the matter is that AP champs can't survive in this game mode without being able to build one item and suddenly go super saiyan. Without Wooglet's, mages are fodder for AD champs.

So that means Black Cleaver is OP, right? Yes and no. Stand alone, Black Cleaver is a balanced item. The problem with Black Cleaver is that it makes the now more expensive armor stat even more expensive, for a whole team, by allowing AD champs to apply the armor shred debuff, in an AoE, with their abilities. So in a game mode like Dominion, seeing a champ with physical AoE damage build a Black Cleaver is the same as knowing that you'll have 25% less armor as soon as a fight breaks out.

How do you counter AD when armor is a bad counter to AD? You need the stasis active from Zhonya's to outright stop the incoming damage. Zhonya's would be really expensive to rush, how do you keep your damage competitive? You need the raw power boost from Deathcap. How do I afford over 6k gold worth of items by the time someone has dropped half that amount to pick up a Black Cleaver? Well, that's how you end up with Wooglet's.

If every AD champ is running around with an item that provides durability, damage, and more damage via defense shred for only 3k gold, then every mage needs an item that provides durability, damage, and more damage via a raw AP boost passive for only 3(.5)k gold to stay competitive.

How do you stay competitive in Dom if you're playing a champ who doesn't build either of these items? Well, unless you're a tank, you don't.

tl;dr: The whole situation is buried up to its neck in "completely f*cked", but if you must play Dom in the meantime, pick a champ who rushes either of these items.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Orphane

Senior Member

02-09-2013

Brutalizer/Ghostblade into LW is a far more effective penetration build and what is actually making armor a worse defensive option than health in many cases.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

General Quackers

Senior Member

02-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orphane View Post
Brutalizer/Ghostblade into LW is a far more effective penetration build and what is actually making armor a worse defensive option than health in many cases.
It's not as efficient and it doesn't provide as many good stats. Also, you're dead wrong about it providing more ArP.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

A Slime Appears

Senior Member

02-09-2013

I wouldn't say the item itself is OP, but that active is ****ing ridiculous in the right situations. Which isn't when you get caught out of position and end up in a 1v5, but on towers and in 1v1s against some champs, or on champs that already have dumb troll moves (vlad, fizz, etc) it's just plain stupid and unfun to play against.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

FDru

Senior Member

02-09-2013

This was the answer to finishing games with one whole item built. I'm all for it. Being able to build just about nothing before a game ends isn't fun.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MyDeadGrandma

Senior Member

02-09-2013

Actually, it depends on the AP champion. Low ratio, high base/spamability heroes still benefit damage wise from pen and CDR.

There's no hurry to rush wooglets on Elise, Kass, Malz, Teemo, Swain i.e. any one of the solid heroes who still benefit from an early BFT.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

General Quackers

Senior Member

02-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyDeadGrandma View Post
Actually, it depends on the AP champion. Low ratio, high base/spamability heroes still benefit damage wise from pen and CDR.

There's no hurry to rush wooglets on Elise, Kass, Malz, Teemo, Swain i.e. any one of the solid heroes who still benefit from an early BFT.
Swain and Kass want Wooglet's as a third build at the latest.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

konfetarius

Senior Member

02-10-2013

Quote:
Swain and Kass want Wooglet's as a third build at the latest.
No, lol.

By the time you complete their actual core items, you are looking increased importance of stuff like Void Staff. Don't get me wrong, Wooglets is hilariously powerful, but rushing it is the domain of bot laners or a few specific champions for top. If anything, it's there because Mages needs something to scale them late game and either Deathcap or Zhonaya by themselves were not enough given the lack of AP farm advantage or free 20% CDR with infinite mana that is present in SR.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

General Quackers

Senior Member

02-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by konfetarius View Post
No, lol.

By the time you complete their actual core items, you are looking increased importance of stuff like Void Staff. Don't get me wrong, Wooglets is hilariously powerful, but rushing it is the domain of bot laners or a few specific champions for top. If anything, it's there because Mages needs something to scale them late game and either Deathcap or Zhonaya by themselves were not enough given the lack of AP farm advantage or free 20% CDR with infinite mana that is present in SR.
Swain and Kass love bot lane. I'm not understanding why you're acting as if Kass or Swain won't build a Wooglet's. Swain has no escapes in his kit and relies on being tanky while dealing more damage than he takes (after heals from crowform), Wooglet's provides him with a lot of AP for his very good ratios, armor, and the stasis active.

In Kassadin's case, the Wooglet's stasis puts his power level into the extremes as it easily allows him to escape from situations where he should be dead five times over.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Talith PA

Senior Member

02-10-2013

OP complaining about a support item for AD bruisers to help out their AD teammates that build actual damage items while also complaining about what should be generally a 4th, maybe 3rd AP item except for a handful of champions.

tl;dr: The whole post is buried up to its neck in "complete lack of analysis", but if you must mindlessly rush items regardless of their effectiveness in the meantime, pick a champ who rushes either of these items.


12