Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


[Game][Minor] Loss of control bars not showing on others

123
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SaltyMouthfuls

Senior Member

02-09-2013

Quote:
RexSaur:
Imo that kinda defeats the purpose of the system in the first place.

Being able to see all the durations helps with things such as perfectly chaining CC's into a target and general awareness.

I dont see on whats wrong with it, i mean its toggleable so if someone doesnt like the screen ''clutter'' it might provoke they can always turn it off.

I wonder if it would be possible to have another toggle so you can select if you want to see everyone's cc bar duration or only yours?That would solve the issue.

This. It's nice that you guys are adding more animations, like stun animations and knock up animations, but being able to see the bars is a lot more obvious.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Jaawn

Senior Member

02-09-2013

Quote:
Xelnath:
This is a discussion we're having internally.

Right now, we've decided to not show the duration for effects that aren't done by you or affecting you. If you feel differently, please speak up.



Xelnath didn't say WHY they are discussing it internally. It is entirely possible that the reservation to showing everyone's CC timers is not just based on aesthetics.

I think it is pretty obvious that it would be useful. However, you could make a good argument for it making the game "too easy" in some respects. Part of the "skill" involved in a game like LoL involves knowledge and experience (i.e. knowing things like CC times for all champions). If you put an easy display for that information on the screen, it reduces the advantage more experienced players have over less experienced ones.

Maybe that would be a good thing, maybe it would be bad...I don't think the answer to that is obvious and it warrants further discussion.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Henry Plainview

Senior Member

02-09-2013

Quote:
Jaawn:
Xelnath didn't say WHY they are discussing it internally. It is entirely possible that the reservation to showing everyone's CC timers is not just based on aesthetics.

I think it is pretty obvious that it would be useful. However, you could make a good argument for it making the game "too easy" in some respects. Part of the "skill" involved in a game like LoL involves knowledge and experience (i.e. knowing things like CC times for all champions). If you put an easy display for that information on the screen, it reduces the advantage more experienced players have over less experienced ones.

Maybe that would be a good thing, maybe it would be bad...I don't think the answer to that is obvious and it warrants further discussion.

This is basically akin to saying that the minimap shouldn't update with monster spawns because everyone should know when they update and keep a timer because the in game clock is RIGHT THERE NOOB. Having a general idea of the CC times is not a skill, it's rote memorization and counting, and I don't know about you, but I certainly can't keep all the various possible divisions of tenacity in my head every time someone gets stunned.

I assumed when I heard about it that it would apply for everyone, and I honestly think it completely defeats the purpose of the system showing on enemies at all if you're restricting it so much. And as for readability: I think the bar only showing up sometimes causes more confusion than it solves.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Jaawn

Senior Member

02-09-2013

Quote:
Henry Plainview:
This is basically akin to saying that the minimap shouldn't update with monster spawns because everyone should know when they update and keep a timer because the in game clock is RIGHT THERE NOOB. Having a general idea of the CC times is not a skill, it's rote memorization and counting, and I don't know about you, but I certainly can't keep all the various possible divisions of tenacity in my head every time someone gets stunned.

I assumed when I heard about it that it would apply for everyone, and I honestly think it completely defeats the purpose of the system showing on enemies at all if you're restricting it so much. And as for readability: I think the bar only showing up sometimes causes more confusion than it solves.


No it isn't. You're comparing pieces of knowledge which are on different levels from eachother. It is unreasonable to expect that someone keep track of all monster camps by warding them, watching for when they get killed, writing down the next spawn time, etc... Also, the camps don't update unless you scout them. If they were always up to date, you'd have a better argument.

Most of the skill of this game is knowledge-based. This isn't a twitchy FPS where the best person is the one with the best reaction time or button mashing. If you give players too much information about some pieces of LoL, you may as well remove those pieces because it makes decisions obvious. There is a certain amount of intentional obfuscation to this game that rewards experience.

Most people would agree that "buying and placing wards" is something "noobs" never do, but "good players" always do. Knowing that you should use wards involves no skill...only experience/knowledge.

I think an even better example of the CC thing is champion ability cooldowns. You can't see enemy cooldown displays, nor should you. However, an experienced player knows the general length of ability cooldowns. So, to throw your argument back at you: "Having a general idea of enemy cooldowns is not a skill, it's rote memorization and counting, and I don't know about you, but I certainly can't keep all the various possible cooldown reduction amounts in my head every time someone ults."

Does that mean everyone should be able to see the enemies' cooldowns? No, it does not. Now CC stuff is a little bit different, so it is still debatable. My point is that there is a valid argument both ways. It isn't clear-cut.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Zielmann

Senior Member

02-09-2013

Quote:
Jaawn:
I think an even better example of the CC thing is champion ability cooldowns. You can't see enemy cooldown displays, nor should you. However, an experienced player knows the general length of ability cooldowns. So, to throw your argument back at you: "Having a general idea of enemy cooldowns is not a skill, it's rote memorization and counting, and I don't know about you, but I certainly can't keep all the various possible cooldown reduction amounts in my head every time someone ults."

Does that mean everyone should be able to see the enemies' cooldowns? No, it does not. Now CC stuff is a little bit different, so it is still debatable. My point is that there is a valid argument both ways. It isn't clear-cut.


This is quite possibly the best argument for doing it this way that I've seen. I was also assuming that we'd see them on everybody, and was surprised and a bit disappointed when they weren't there.

But thinking about it in this fashion, I think I like it as it is. I think there are two main points to the bars. First, it's to give the player dishing out the CC a visually quantifiable verification that yes, they did CC that person. Second, it's so that you, as the CC'd one, can see exactly how long you have before you can move. It also gives you visual feedback on how much you get out of tenacity.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MisterRyu

Junior Member

02-09-2013

I think in the support role specially, having the ability to see the duration of CC on your adc could help with the timing of certain skills and abilities. and vice versa (the other adc), I'm in favor of making it shown to all with the option to toggle it on/off , i think it could add or even help lower elo gameplay


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Henry Plainview

Senior Member

02-09-2013

Quote:
Jaawn:
Does that mean everyone should be able to see the enemies' cooldowns? No, it does not. Now CC stuff is a little bit different, so it is still debatable. My point is that there is a valid argument both ways. It isn't clear-cut.

People's current cooldowns are entirely different from CC (although I was disappointed the new interface did not show enemy abilities like Dota 2 does), as are wards. That is macro strategy, while cc timing is micro strategy based on animations that can be extremely difficult to even see during combat. This game as a whole removes the emphasis from micro that exists in other MOBAs. As a counter-counter argument: if that is an important part of the game, why can we see enemies' mana bars and allies' ultimate cooldowns?

Thanks for the downvote though, that was helpful.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Iceciro

Senior Member

02-09-2013

I'd prefer to be able to see the duration on all CC too, not just those I'm directly involved in, for reasons listed.

All of the comments about the memorization of your teammates' CC durations take on an extra tone when you consider a lot of CC scales by the levels in the ability; did my allied Cho'Gath silence the enemy team for 1.5s or 2.5s? big difference!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ragequitternob

Recruiter

02-10-2013

personally would be easier to see the duration of cc but that would make the game of season 3 way more predictable ? and would have great advantage if the player is skilled and trained to see the cc bar which gives the full advantage to the team . i would say cc bar gives a much better estimation of the effect and could accurately predict when cc ends if the player is alert ( good )


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Valrion

Senior Member

02-11-2013

The problem with everyone seeing it is that organized teams of 5 will be able to take advantage of maxing out the times champions get locked down.

In my opinion the enemy team shouldn't be able to see this bar, only him and his allies should (so allies that just joined the fight know that he can't move at the moment.)


123