New Updates to the Tribunal

First Riot Post
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Trumanator

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaiLinna View Post
So Player Support was still checking cases overall? Or just the Permabans? I think that support should be checking every case before marking someone as a criminal. I hope we'll get a feature against Punish spammers soon.
You mean like taking their report and vote weights away? Like they already do?


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RighteousFreed

Senior Member

02-08-2013

why dont u just make it so every case is one case and u build up punishment based on amount punished?


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Abracadaniel

Senior Member

02-08-2013

I love all the changes but i am still sad that you no longer get IP for judging cases.

I wish that they would bring this feature back but make i so you only earn IP when you are correct on the outcome.


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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02-08-2013
2 of 31 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by WraithNexus View Post
I wish people could review more cases. 20 seems like such a small number
We may increase this soon. We just want to be confident that there are very few abuse cases and that the cap doesn't actually burn players out. Due to Justice Reviews, a lot of players will feel pressure to finish the max number of cases everyday and we have to be careful increasing the caps because of this.


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WarlordAlpha

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Senior Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
We’ve tweaked how The Tribunal builds cases: Instead of 100% random sampling, The Tribunal will attempt to find the games that ultimately sent each player to The Tribunal. By selecting recent games that had a big impact in sending the player to The Tribunal, you should see the average number of reports against a player increase per game.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this mean that the Tribunal will be intentionally selecting a player's "worst" (i.e., most toxic) games?


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SqueezeMeNow

Member

02-08-2013

1. Occasionally the consequences of spam punish was overlooked. We thought that was awesome and have found ways to make it happen more.

2. Wow, and premade teams can abuse the tribunal system on their poor team even more. Did you even think on this one more than a minute?

3. So it's more likely now that no matter how nice the player the odds are greater the one game they did anything wrong will make it onto the report. Instantly justifying a ban for all the nonsense reports that came with it. All hail spam punish.

4. Sitting around waiting to spam punish is hard without opening other windows, and we understand you lose track of what you're doing by not paying attention. Here is a counter.


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Lyte

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02-08-2013
3 of 31 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaiLinna View Post
So Player Support was still checking cases overall? Or just the Permabans? I think that support should be checking every case before marking someone as a criminal. I hope we'll get a feature against Punish spammers soon.
We recently did an analysis on the types of players that visit the Tribunal, and very few players actually spam Punish. In fact, they are such a minority that spam punish voters rarely have the influence to affect the outcome of a case.

As a second data point, depending on the month, punish rates in the Tribunal range from 60-70%. We have to remember that the punish rate actually doesn't matter that mean--what matters is whether those players deserve the bans.

When we measure the success or accuracy of the Tribunal, we actually look at statistics like: "What is the false positive rate?" In other words, how many players are being punished when it is undeserved? We try to ensure that the false positive rate is low as possible, which is why the Tribunal is actually designed to be quite conservative.


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Lyte

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02-08-2013
4 of 31 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihatebikeshorts View Post
Dr. Lyte, I was doing tribunal when a thought occurred to me: what is your stance on behavior progression in relationship to tribunal cases? Let me elaborate: say a player has a track record of raging in game and get reported consistently enough to get into tribunal. Now consider that this player has actually shown behavioral progression in the positive- that is this player is more considerate of how he is behaving and how it effects other players' playing experiences. They get reported in some games still, but overall shows slight progression. I'm wondering if Tribunal already takes this into consideration, because now I have the nagging though in the back of my head that I may, in fact, be helping to punish a player that is actually showing progression without having been punished first. Although on the other hand, one could say that the punishment is still deserved for past grievances.
What is your stance, or rather the stance of the Tribunal, on this perspective?
Most of our systems tend to be lenient towards toxic players that are improving their behaviors. We really value and respect players who make a genuine attempt at reform. We have been brainstorming on whether showing 'behavioral progression' might be valuable in the Tribunal... but it's a tricky issue.


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SqueezeMeNow

Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
We recently did an analysis on the types of players that visit the Tribunal, and very few players actually spam Punish. In fact, they are such a minority that spam punish voters rarely have the influence to affect the outcome of a case.

As a second data point, depending on the month, punish rates in the Tribunal range from 60-70%. We have to remember that the punish rate actually doesn't matter that mean--what matters is whether those players deserve the bans.

When we measure the success or accuracy of the Tribunal, we actually look at statistics like: "What is the false positive rate?" In other words, how many players are being punished when it is undeserved? We try to ensure that the false positive rate is low as possible, which is why the Tribunal is actually designed to be quite conservative.
If punish rates are 60-70% at times how do you find the people who spam punish? If they are still accurate as hell doing it, how do you tell? They throw out a pardon once in a blue moon? Enlighten me.

If you're trying to ensure false positive rates are as low as possible, then why stop checking unanimous decisions? Seeing as how that can and will INCREASE flase positive rates and is entirely contradictory to what you typed.


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Lyte

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02-08-2013
5 of 31 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by SqueezeMeNow View Post
1. Occasionally the consequences of spam punish was overlooked. We thought that was awesome and have found ways to make it happen more.

2. Wow, and premade teams can abuse the tribunal system on their poor team even more. Did you even think on this one more than a minute?

3. So it's more likely now that no matter how nice the player the odds are greater the one game they did anything wrong will make it onto the report. Instantly justifying a ban for all the nonsense reports that came with it. All hail spam punish.

4. Sitting around waiting to spam punish is hard without opening other windows, and we understand you lose track of what you're doing by not paying attention. Here is a counter.
I'd be open to discussing your Reform Card if you want to post it. I'd be curious whether the community finds your behavior acceptable.