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Break up Warmog's into smaller pieces and raise overall cost

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Zer0blizzard

Senior Member

02-14-2013

Waiting for responses.


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Zer0blizzard

Senior Member

02-16-2013

Waiting for responses.


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67chrome

Senior Member

02-16-2013

Quote:
Zer0blizzard:
1000 gold for giant's belt AND 995 gold for the recipe. Way to ignore that it requires 3 parts totaling under 800 gold and then 2 ~1000 gold parts. Those are 2 medium chunks.

Bloodthirster is a huge chunk (BF Sword) and two medium chunks, but it's built almost exclusively for ADCs first. Bruisers/tanks on the other hand, are much more incremental builders. If an enemy bruiser has the money to buy a Bloodthirster at the same time as your ADC, that game is basically over for you. Bruisers wreck midgame because they outdamage carries and can duel and towerdive.

Blame Riot for making such a great defensive item that always scales into late game for such a relatively cheap price.


I have no idea what you're trying to say here and am thoroughly confused weather you're agreeing with me or not. I also referenced Giant's Belt and it's price specifically in my post, which makes me wonder what your definition of "ignore" is.

Bruisers being incremental builders would only make changing Warmog's recipe to more increments be even worse. Were going against their build pattern and forcing them to save more than 1000 for a massive component would force Warmog's into a situation were it's situationally good and requires some careful planning and sacrifice to pick up. Making Warmog's be built incrementally would only increase the problem of seeing it in every game, making it from more expensive items would likely cause it to see less play and keep it more in check than it is currently. If Warmog's current popularity says anything, it's that the item should be harder to get - not easier.


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Sir Thronk

Senior Member

02-16-2013

I just wish they'd leave it alone. It's not broken the way it is now.


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Zer0blizzard

Senior Member

02-18-2013

DO NOT QUOTE THIS WALL OF TEXT PLZ.

I WILL READ ALL RESPONSES AND QUOTE ACCORDINGLY.

Quote:
synnamonster:
I just wish they'd leave it alone. It's not broken the way it is now.


Wrong. It's getting slight tuning for the indefinite future.

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2013/01...ances-and.html (http://www.surrenderat20.net/2013/01/xypherous-on-health-vs-resistances-and.html)

THE FOLLOWING IS QUOTED FROM THE LINKED ARTICLE

"
Of course the mention of health brought up Warmog's Armor, the heaviest HP item in the game. Xypherous, however, had a bit of a surprising response to the claims that Warmog's Armor is problematic.

"Not actually certain it's as big of a problem as the current environment thinks it is. Warmog's isn't really efficient in terms of gaining raw health per gold if you do the math on it. Buying any combination of ruby crystal items, for example, will net you more health than gold than buying Warmog's.

At the moment, it looks like it's more an environmental thing than an actual cost to gold effectiveness ratio.

Although, there's a couple of things tuned around old armor values that we'll probably need to look at in the future:

1. The tower damage / armor penetration formulae were based off old health / armor values. We'll probably have to revisit that soonish so that towers have more damage and less armor penetration.

2. We'll have to do a pass on character that used to scale primarily off health because their tuning is probably off - Probably not a huge surprise that Shen or Olaf are pretty decent now."

Addressing a summoner lamenting about the "lack of health options" besides Warmog's, he replied:

"While Warmog's may be the defining health item - Bulwark / Randuin / Locket of the Iron Solari / Sunfire Cape all over above 400 health in a single slot. Roughly half the armor items are as much health items as armor items at their core. Randuin's is the only item in there that provides more than 50+ armor in a single slot - so most of those are items are actually core health items."

However, he did admit that Warmog's is a bit cheap right now and mentioned it's price is going up a little.

"Yeah, on PBE the cost of Warmog's is inching up slightly by 180 gold or so.

We'll keep adjusting the cost until we feel like it's in a decent spot. Like I said, I'm not saying the current tuning is perfect and that we've definitely overshot this patch - but we'll keep tuning it until it is.'

Xypherous also spoke a bit about the problematic versatility Giant's Belt after a summoner pointed out that it's perhaps currently TOO safe of a purchase for top lane.

"The strength of the various health components are actually on our radar - I agree with you that it's probably too safe of an item when unfinished right now. It's something we're going to address next patch and then take another look at afterwards to see if it needs further work.

So don't get me wrong, I'm not saying health tuning is perfect right now or that we aren't making gold : stat efficiency so let us know of stuff like this!"

"

Quote:
67chrome:
I have no idea what you're trying to say here and am thoroughly confused weather you're agreeing with me or not. I also referenced Giant's Belt and it's price specifically in my post, which makes me wonder what your definition of "ignore" is.

Bruisers being incremental builders would only make changing Warmog's recipe to more increments be even worse. Were going against their build pattern and forcing them to save more than 1000 for a massive component would force Warmog's into a situation were it's situationally good and requires some careful planning and sacrifice to pick up. Making Warmog's be built incrementally would only increase the problem of seeing it in every game, making it from more expensive items would likely cause it to see less play and keep it more in check than it is currently. If Warmog's current popularity says anything, it's that the item should be harder to get - not easier.


Hence the increase to price that is in the title. But at that point, the recipe would be the equivalent of a BFsword for tanks.


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Zer0blizzard

Senior Member

02-23-2013

Waiting for responses.


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NHoff

Member

02-24-2013

[QUOTE=Zer0blizzard;34436012]The recipe for Warmog's has it give the passive and 420 health for 995 gold. Considering that a Giant's Belt gives 400 health for 1000 gold, something is wrong with this picture.

There is nothing wrong with this picture. Items become more cost efficient as you build them up. That's like arguing that Infinity Edge is giving you too much because it's only 3g. The reason that you get 420 health and the passive for 995 gold is because you've already built 4 items beforehand. You can't just get Warmogs for 995 gold. This is the whole point of building items in lol, they become more cost efficient as you build them.


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Zer0blizzard

Senior Member

02-26-2013

Quote:
NHoff:
[QUOTE=Zer0blizzard;34436012]The recipe for Warmog's has it give the passive and 420 health for 995 gold. Considering that a Giant's Belt gives 400 health for 1000 gold, something is wrong with this picture.

There is nothing wrong with this picture. Items become more cost efficient as you build them up. That's like arguing that Infinity Edge is giving you too much because it's only 3g. The reason that you get 420 health and the passive for 995 gold is because you've already built 4 items beforehand. You can't just get Warmogs for 995 gold. This is the whole point of building items in lol, they become more cost efficient as you build them.


Warmog's is more like Bloodthirster than it is like Trinity Force/Wriggle's Lantern. There is a GIANT gap in overall stat AND gold increase due to the inherent "chunky" nature of building Warmog's/Bloodthirster. However, most "chunky" items (as I call them), do not have 4 item recipes with no "intermediate" items in between.

Imagine if you had to build Aegis of the Legion without Emblem of Valor
or
Ravenous Hydra without Tiamat
or
Hextech Gunblade without Hextech Revolver
or Phantom Dancer without Zeal.

THE FACT IS THAT IT IS INCREDIBLY RARE FOR ITEMS TO BUILD OUT OF FOUR SIMULTANEOUS ITEMS AND A RECIPE. I'M TRYING TO TURN WARMOG'S RECIPE INTO SOMETHING MORE LIKE AEGIS OF THE LEGION'S RECIPE.


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Zer0blizzard

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Waiting for responses.


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3mptylord

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Regrowth Pendant = Rejuvenation Bead + Rejuvenation Bead
UNIQUE Passive - Warmog's Gift: While out of combat, you regenerate 1% of your maximum health every 5 seconds.
(slightly weaker than Warmog's since it doesn't work in combat)

Warmog's Armor = Ruby Crystal + Giant's Belt + Regrowth Pendant
UNIQUE Passive - Warmog's Gift: You regenerate 1% of your maximum health every 5 seconds.

Tiamat now requires Pickaxe + Long Sword + Regrowth Pengant,
Tiamat and Hydra gain UNQIUE Passive - Warmog's Gift: Your basic attacks replenish 0.75% of your maximum health.

Remembers named passives don't stack. ^_^


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