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Break up Warmog's into smaller pieces and raise overall cost

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Zer0blizzard

Senior Member

02-08-2013

THE FACT IS THAT IT IS INCREDIBLY RARE FOR ITEMS TO BUILD OUT OF FOUR SIMULTANEOUS ITEMS AND A RECIPE. I'M TRYING TO TURN WARMOG'S RECIPE INTO SOMETHING MORE LIKE AEGIS OF THE LEGION'S RECIPE.

The recipe for Warmog's has it give the passive and 420 health for 995 gold. Considering that a Giant's Belt gives 400 health for 1000 gold, something is wrong with this picture.

However, there's also the problem with Warmog's already requiring four items (which takes up a lot of item slots). Hence, I think that there should be a 2x rejuv bead item (see another one of my threads posted shortly before this thread was posted), perhaps a double ruby crystal/double Giant's Belt item, and then that would help clean up the item slot mess.

The raising of the overall cost is similar to how Trinity Force works; you get a really good item, but it takes a lot of intermediate items to get there.


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Glaxko

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Regrowth pendant + Ruby Crystal=Warmogs necklace. 180g+475g+200g=855 gold.
Giants belt + Regrowth Pendant= Warmogs belt. 1000g+180g+300g=1480 gold.
Aegis of Legion + Warmogs necklace + Warmogs belt=Warmogs armor. 2150g+855+1480+400g=4855.


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Tyr Ahn Nee

Senior Member

02-09-2013

Naturally, and of course, I am going to disagree.

Riot should, first, Sober up. and then second Simplify ALL items and not be persuaded by players to make the system more convoluted.


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Mradr

Senior Member

02-09-2013

Quote:
Tyr Ahn Nee:
Naturally, and of course, I am going to disagree.

Riot should, first, Sober up. and then second Simplify ALL items and not be persuaded by players to make the system more convoluted.



That's the issue we have now... they made it simple...

Do I think they should split it up? Na... but do they need to make it like season 2 warmogs? Kind of.

Instead of giving the full boost at once... it should force you to wait for it over all... yes you will get the warmogs health increase... it just makes sure it slowly does it over the course of a game so you can't be soo tanky mid game no one can burst you down.


Warmog now gives you: 700 life.. increase by 30 every min for 10 stacks.. regeneration equal to .5% of your maximum health (+.1% for every stack).. cost is now 2550 from 2830.. Recipe changed to Giant's Belt + Ruby Crystal + Rejuvenation Bead.

The change would make the over all item have less presents in mid game, while dominating late game. To back that up... the over all cost will also have to be lowered to make sure the time has time to build up while comeing a bit early. Note* I didn't do the math... someone please do the math for me to make sure it would work from the time the item is bought to the time the item is finished.


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67chrome

Senior Member

02-09-2013

If it was broken into more components it would generally encourage people to rush it more frequently though, and health is already strong early on. Tri Force is sort of annoying getting latter on, as the longer you wait the more gold you have to carry around without converting it into a tactical advantage.

I have opposite view on the direction Warmog's recipe should be moved to. The thing that makes it strong is predominantly that health is a strong attribute, especially early on. Spreading out the cost to multiple component items allows you to scale up to the final item rather smoothly regardless of how frequently you go back to base. If it were set up like Infinity Edge, The Bloodthirster, or Rabadon's Deathcap you'd have to sit through a solid chunk of your lanning phase without any additional health at all to save up for the powerful bonus it grants. As such you trade a decent chunk of the lanning phase for the ability to have so much AD or AP in one spot. WIth Warmog's you can just scale your health upwards as you acquire gold, the most expensive component is only 1000 gold. With the direction health is going as the most definitive Defense stat (were AD and AP are the definitive Attack and Magic stats) it would only make sense if health had a B.F.Sword or Needlessly Large Rod equivalent.


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TasogareReiken

Senior Member

02-09-2013

The problem is health is too strong a component right now, to the point that you get more benefit out of stacking health than building any pure defense item.


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Zer0blizzard

Senior Member

02-11-2013

Quote:
67chrome:
If it was broken into more components it would generally encourage people to rush it more frequently though, and health is already strong early on. Tri Force is sort of annoying getting latter on, as the longer you wait the more gold you have to carry around without converting it into a tactical advantage.

I have opposite view on the direction Warmog's recipe should be moved to. The thing that makes it strong is predominantly that health is a strong attribute, especially early on. Spreading out the cost to multiple component items allows you to scale up to the final item rather smoothly regardless of how frequently you go back to base. If it were set up like Infinity Edge, The Bloodthirster, or Rabadon's Deathcap you'd have to sit through a solid chunk of your lanning phase without any additional health at all to save up for the powerful bonus it grants. As such you trade a decent chunk of the lanning phase for the ability to have so much AD or AP in one spot. WIth Warmog's you can just scale your health upwards as you acquire gold, the most expensive component is only 1000 gold. With the direction health is going as the most definitive Defense stat (were AD and AP are the definitive Attack and Magic stats) it would only make sense if health had a B.F.Sword or Needlessly Large Rod equivalent.


1000 gold for giant's belt AND 995 gold for the recipe. Way to ignore that it requires 3 parts totaling under 800 gold and then 2 ~1000 gold parts. Those are 2 medium chunks.

Bloodthirster is a huge chunk (BF Sword) and two medium chunks, but it's built almost exclusively for ADCs first. Bruisers/tanks on the other hand, are much more incremental builders. If an enemy bruiser has the money to buy a Bloodthirster at the same time as your ADC, that game is basically over for you. Bruisers wreck midgame because they outdamage carries and can duel and towerdive.

Blame Riot for making such a great defensive item that always scales into late game for such a relatively cheap price.


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Zer0blizzard

Senior Member

02-12-2013

Waiting for replies.


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NGG Codeluke

Senior Member

02-12-2013

I think they just need more (or better) AD options, because carries can't shred through tanks. I remember when I used to play mid or AD and i'd buy warmogs ppl called me NOOB BUY DAMAGE. Look at the meta now. Everyone gets warmogs lol.


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Zer0blizzard

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Codeluke:
I think they just need more (or better) AD options, because carries can't shred through tanks. I remember when I used to play mid or AD and i'd buy warmogs ppl called me NOOB BUY DAMAGE. Look at the meta now. Everyone gets warmogs lol.


Carries do shred through tanks. Phantom Dancer/Blade of the Ruined King/Last Whisper, and not everyone gets Warmog's. The most defensive items carries get is usually Guardian Angel because they rely on lifesteal to keep them alive, not health items. Go look at LOLKing for the most common items by carries; I would be very surprised if any health item (besides black cleaver) would show up in the most common 4 items any carry would buy.


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