Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


"Anti-Fun" and other lazy gameplay mechanics and the future of this game as an esport

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Uccisore

Senior Member

10-27-2010

"Burden of Knowledge" doesn't mean "anytime somebody has to learn something".

"Anti fun" does not mean "any time something happens in the game that somebody doesn't like".

These conversations should all be taking place in the original Zileas thread, so people can see how stupid you people starting these threads are.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sulzala

Member

10-27-2010

Quote:
TomatoBisque:
At first I was going to agree with OP, then I saw that this thread is just him *****ing about Flash.

Sorry bro, you're not good because you can use Flash to escape ganks. Maybe you should learn how to use wards more effectively and get some map awareness.

Also, the "Burden of Knowledge" being "anti-fun" is a bad joke. Sorry, but players should be expected to know what the hell is going on in the game, not spoonfed for being idiots. Since Zileas loves WoW analogies, this is why WotLK PVE is a joke.


you know you can counter flash right... haha too bad you prob didn't get it.

maybe you should gank knowing they blew their flash already. but that must be something new.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

UnknownVBS

Senior Member

10-27-2010

Quote:
Psychlops:
Another terribly flawed argument. There are currently 62 (and climbing) champions in LoL, each with 5 abilities and 10-12 basic stats. There's map layouts and neutral creeps to learn about, 50+ items many with multiple effects, 30 mastery slots of potentially 90-120 choices to make, 30 rune slots fillable with dozens of potential runes. There's a pretty steep learning curve in LoL and every time you add a champ it expands.

If you joined LoL today that's an awful lot to learn in terms of burden of knowledge.

You can make a pretty valid argument that adjusting flash until it's less useful and therefore chosen less is a better solution than removing it. I have trouble understanding why the developers choose to remove a summoner spell at all when they can simply modify it until it seems to be chosen less or in the case of "revive/rally" chosen more.


The biggest problem I think is that they've already revised it a lot. It used to be twice the range, and kept getting cd nerfs. Then they made it half the range, shorter cd and able to dodge spells so it would be used strategically. They've had to keep upping the cd because it turns out it's still super powered. At this point, it's hard to nerf it without making it absurdly useless. Sure, they could make the cd nine minutes, but that's just insulting. At that point, you might as well remove the spell and replace it with an item so the functionality is still in the game, but in a different way.

On another note, to everyone saying complexity isn't a problem, and is actually a good thing, Mark Rosewater, the lead designer of Magic: the Gathering has said many times (including in his article on Monday) that the most serious threat to Magic's long-term health is complexity creep and constantly warns against making complex cards just because they can. He says simple, straightforward cards are more fun, and well received. Additionally, the game still has a lot of complexity and choices, even with just simple cards. Now, I'd wager Mark Rosewater knows a thing or two about game design, and if he says complexity is a serious problem that should be avoided, then we should listen. Sure, DotA is complex, and complex games exist, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing.

And, for the record, you can have very strategic, complex games with very simple rules and pieces. May I present Go?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sulzala

Member

10-27-2010

Quote:
LameLikeMike:
how can so many people be so incredibly dense.
flash sucks. it makes the game less fun and competitive. there will be alternatives. deal with it.


You must be 100% voice of the player base. LOL.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sulzala

Member

10-27-2010

Quote:
Uccisore:
Zileas took a poll, the people who want to get rid of Flash out numbered the ones who wanted to keep it by almost 2 to 1, you dumb ****. Now pipe down.


I guess those that didn't see or missed the poll must not exist. Great Job.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Uccisore

Senior Member

10-27-2010

Quote:
Sulzala:
I guess those that didn't see or missed the poll must not exist. Great Job.


So, dip**** forumite says Riot is ignoring the wishes of their playerbase.

I point out that Riot polled the player base, and is in fact doing what most of them said they wanted.

So what's YOUR point exactly? That Riot should do the opposite of what the poll says? That the best way to find out what the playerbase wants is to not ask them? Help me draw some coherent, relevant idea out of your stupid remark.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MrButtermancer

Senior Member

10-27-2010

Riot is removing Flash because it REWARDS GOOD PLAY LESS AND PUNISHES POOR PLAY LESS.

That sounds like an INCREASE in competition.

BADS use Flash to get out of situations they shouldn't have.

I FULLY support Riot in this decision. Flash *made* this game more casual. Now people will actually have to be good. If you are reliant on Flash, you are just going to have to learn to play without it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Psychlops

Senior Member

10-27-2010

Quote:
Sulzala:
You must be 100% voice of the player base. LOL.
How is this even an argument. It's human nature to resist change, but don't confuse your emotional response with logic. Make a point if you have one but don't simply whine because you like flash...