@Riot'sLoreWriters: Please do not write such heavy-handed exposition

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Thryale

Senior Member

02-10-2013

speaking of lore, why has riot discontinued the league judgments? I used to avidly await the next champion to read the league judgment. I mean the bios are okay, but I really enjoyed the level of detail that was put into the judgments. It's like, the bios gave a background of the character as a character, but the judgments gave us a look into the psyche of the champion we were going to play. Why was such an enjoyable part of the lore cut?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Xulsigae

Senior Member

02-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotRunaan View Post
In terms of alternate lore mediums, I can't say much more that we've already said, honestly, and for that I apologize. There are a ton of options, certainly, but a lot of them require a great deal of development and IP construction up front. Before I became a part of the game industry, I would've never guessed the amount of time, manpower, effort and resources it takes to fully develop a cohesive and engaging IP. At Riot, it's been a massive cross-team effort for a long time now, and it's coming along--all we can do is continue to ask for your patience and promise that our tom men are on it. Top men! I've met them myself!

The JoJ had a lot of issues, many of which were sadly invisible to you guys (a lot of stuff like resource management, time investment and localization time played a part). As the one who wrote most of the last third of the JoJ, however, I cannot stress enough how much better the story of the JoJ would have been if we had been allowed to tell it through a better medium. Nitty-gritty development-language stuff aside, that's really what Riot wants to bring you guys: more awesome, more accessible and more engaging stories.

Coming back from that tangent, I'd love to find a place for Quinn's journal to live in the client, but it's tough to find a home for a one-time project like this (that isn't to say that we won't do more like it, just that if we do future stuff, it might take a different form depending on the champion). Don't rule it out entirely, but it's not a priority at the moment.
Well I'm sad to hear how many problems the JoJ had, and I'm glad you are trying to find something that is better. Would you be still looking for means to allow the Summoners to be engaged in the League? I wrote a letter asking about Amumu once, and it got answered! I was chuffed about that. I hope you retain such interactions.

Along with that, are there thoughts of taking submitted lore and stories from Summoners? Something along the lines of what Nikasaur does with her art presentations? With quality control of course.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Henry Plainview

Senior Member

02-10-2013

SINGED BIO UPDATE WHERe


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Alex3omg

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

02-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thryale View Post
speaking of lore, why has riot discontinued the league judgments? I used to avidly await the next champion to read the league judgment. I mean the bios are okay, but I really enjoyed the level of detail that was put into the judgments. It's like, the bios gave a background of the character as a character, but the judgments gave us a look into the psyche of the champion we were going to play. Why was such an enjoyable part of the lore cut?

This man. Orianna's judgement literally got me to try this game. A few of my friends played, and one day one linked me that and I read it and made an account.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Alex3omg

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

02-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xulsigae View Post
Well I'm sad to hear how many problems the JoJ had, and I'm glad you are trying to find something that is better. Would you be still looking for means to allow the Summoners to be engaged in the League? I wrote a letter asking about Amumu once, and it got answered! I was chuffed about that. I hope you retain such interactions.

Along with that, are there thoughts of taking submitted lore and stories from Summoners? Something along the lines of what Nikasaur does with her art presentations? With quality control of course.

Ooo that'd be great!

What if it were a contest to submit either stories, comics, videos, whatever but to tell stories of the league. Not necessarily fanfics but like, things that are canon or could be without much problem (not 'the time singed and janna hooked up')

That'd be awesome, and they could pick the winners and make those stories officially canon or whatever.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TerraRising

Senior Member

02-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotRunaan View Post

The JoJ had a lot of issues, many of which were sadly invisible to you guys (a lot of stuff like resource management, time investment and localization time played a part). As the one who wrote most of the last third of the JoJ, however, I cannot stress enough how much better the story of the JoJ would have been if we had been allowed to tell it through a better medium. Nitty-gritty development-language stuff aside, that's really what Riot wants to bring you guys: more awesome, more accessible and more engaging stories.
Did Riot have former journalists/news writers doing the JoJ's?

As a journalist, I can say that if you had such a writer with even cursory access to the various development teams for things like extra background, possible scenario creations (What would happen during a LoL cooking contest, for instance) or other interactions between the champs and summoners.

Just curious is all...


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Crunchdoggie

Senior Member

02-10-2013

what do you think about this:
The preview comes from the killer's point of view, reading her notes (specifically the really personal ones) she has made after stealing her journal/ letters. The personal motivations can be conveyed much less clunkily. If you wanted, you could even branch this off into a minute teaser for the assassin. That's how I would've done it at least.

My critique of the pages (take this as a sign of how much i care about how Riot writes the lore):

First page- I think a public notice (not to mean she left it there) is a poor place for her to write her thoughts. Lines like "Prince Jarvan needs to know!" is more of a thought then an annotation, I think it would be better put as "TELL PRINCE JARVAN" or something similar.

Second Page- The crossing out of stubborn --> by the book was heavy enough to make me facepalm. For one, i think it's fine to be stubborn and by the book and by crossing one out you take away some of the complexity from their relationship to each other. What you'll see with a lot of games praised for great writing is that they trust their base to make connections and don't dumb it down so much. It makes the reader feel that either you don't think they're capable or you yourself aren't capable.

Third Page- Pretty good, we see the outsider, the scout, the companion, the analysis, the killer in just a few sentences.

Fourth Page- As a reader of a lot of manga and comics I've seen this backstory a lot. Not everyone is like that, of course, so I won't fault you guys for that. BUT you should keep in mind that most of the people who care about lore aren't the kind of people who've never read a bio The way it was written is frustrating. Is this how people write in their journal? People writing to dead loved ones feels incredibly unrealistic. I feel like many people do this because they've seen it done before. It also feels easy. The character just throws up their most important life points all over the page. In the end, your doing one of the worst things in writing fiction (imo i guess): telling the reader as opposed to showing them.

Fifth Page- Really good, I like it. "I wasn't alone. I have Valor at my side" is a legendary line. Two things, it didn't tell as much as the other pages (I don't have a problem with that, but it's probably why I found it better :P) and it seems out of character that she's going in without much information on the situation, a point that has been stressed in the other four pages. The way I read it was that this target is incredibly important to her personally, enough to make her act irrationally and take risks she wouldn't normally. If that's the case, that was done really well

Sixth Page- Pretty good as well, would only say that the writing under Val is kind of corny.

I really hope you guys read this, it means a whole lot to me that Riot is bringing lore back and I want it to be the best it can.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Fell14043

Senior Member

02-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotRunaan View Post
I'd love to find a place for Quinn's journal to live in the client, but it's tough to find a home for a one-time project like this (that isn't to say that we won't do more like it, just that if we do future stuff, it might take a different form depending on the champion). Don't rule it out entirely, but it's not a priority at the moment.

You know, you guys do have the actual Lore tab in the game client. You know, the one where the JoJ is. Why can't you just put it there? You could even make it glow so that everyone notices it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Alex3omg

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

02-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fell14043 View Post
You know, you guys do have the actual Lore tab in the game client. You know, the one where the JoJ is. Why can't you just put it there? You could even make it glow so that everyone notices it.
yes please yes please


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Eserine

Senior Member

02-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotRunaan View Post
Also, for the record, I'm perfectly willing to partake in a constructive conversation here provided it remains constructive.
Hello Runaan, can you talk more about the decision to use unironic 1950's American police slang in Quinn's preview and how you guys saw that making a "more awesome, more accessible and more engaging" story for readers in an ancient fantasy setting? Did you see a risk in setting up an archaic language-usage parallel with such a phrase where one would not be very likely to reoccur between two civilizations at random, potentially taking readers out of the story?

Can you discuss the consideration you guys gave to the societal impact of large amounts of paper being available in a pre-industrial agrarian society (where the parchment marks in the JoJ and the Nidalee-watermarked forums were always identical, to suggest to the reader a single, magically-erasing scroll exclusively owned by an elite few masters of magic) and how this decision on papercraft might or might not technologically warp Demacian culture past recognition for readers expecting or imagining something consistent with the armor and weapons and titles used by the Demacian characters present in the game?

Are you able to tell us about the development of Demacian artistic techniques to the point of modern-quality renderings instead of works more closely resembling the Bayeux tapestry (assuming of course that Quinn didn't single-handedly invent the complex list of modern art techniques she uses suddenly and taught these to other Demacians and the JoJ writers if they weren't simply using magic to form images in their reports as one might first assume).

In recent claims by a lore writer on the lore forum that Quinn maintains contact with her parents, what specifically made you guys decide to abandon Lux's history in portraying a martial state that valued and encouraged absolute loyalty in the conscripts and enlisted troops, to effectively become the only parent and ideological authority to the fighters it trained to serve the country? Does casting aside such ideas work together with your decisions about the 'more-simplified' motivations of other states within Runeterra in recent champion biographies like Ziggs or Viktor, and how do you see this move being understood politically by young, gaming Democratic activists in the People's Republic of China and similar countries around the world?

Are players ever going to get to know why a medieval peasant girl (however brilliant) was afforded the opportunity pre-ennoblement to master reading and writing, simultaneously with legendary-weapons and animal training, to an extent that she surpasses professional modern writers in understanding of the proper application of grammatical rules? Once again how do you see this contrasting with the historical peasantries and serfdoms of Europe that readers might be expecting where it was rare to see a single book within one's lifetime and "childhood" or "adolescence" was not an established concept? Does Demacia have a public educational system for country peasants, and how would parents relying on children for labor without the benefit of modern work-saving devices (in Quinn's case the family having already lost a child) continue to meet basic subsistence requirements? If Demacia is no longer meant to be understood as a medieval fantasy setting can you describe the methods of birth-control (magical or folk remedy) that country-people use in the case that Quinn's mother and father were forced into a life of serial theft and prostitution in order to continue living?

GIven such aforestated misunderstandings of grammatical rules, do you feel that you and the other members of the lore team have the capacity to relate to the portion of players who are disappointed in seeing a massive potential in the lore for this game to become something really unique and special (artistically or politically), only to have those hopes dashed as you and your colleagues continue to develop the IP in another direction stylistically, aiming for a different segment of the public?

Before joining Riot did you ever personally interact with an imaginary world or IP you hoped might become awesome only to inexplicably watch it crumble to dust before your eyes, to the extent that it no longer became remotely enjoyable, even as an object of disdain, pity, or ridicule between you and your likewise-involved acquaintances? How do you feel that this experience shaped your artistic development?

Thanks for answering players on the forums! It means a lot.