Ahri - in a good spot?

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Riftic

Senior Member

02-08-2013

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Originally Posted by Winderz View Post
but if shes buffed, she'll be op, so i guess shes fine
Going to have to disagree with you there. She is most definitely not fine.

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Originally Posted by Kakyoin Noriaki View Post
imo Cassiopeia outclasses Ahri in just about every aspect, Ryze too due to their constant dps style of spell-slinging. With Liandry's being changed to do less up-front damage and more dot % damage on the PBE, it seems like Riot wants a health-centric meta, which ruins more bursty casters like Ahri. Ahri never really was that bursty anyway, more like a mobility mage.
I have a particular hatred for Ryze because he is one of the biggest double standards I have ever seen in this game. Ahri was nerfed really hard because she was able to build tanky. But what does Ryze do now? Everything the old Ahri could, and more.

I'm not looking for a Ryze nerf. I'm looking for Ahri to be comparable to some of the decent AP champions like Ryze or Anivia.

Obviously, Riot doesn't want her building tanky, and I actually agree. She should be more fragile. But as it stands, her current damage and damage scaling do not even come close to warranting her fragility. If nothing else, she needs some better AP ratios so she can remain relevant late-game.


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Riftic

Senior Member

02-08-2013

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Originally Posted by Arai Kitsune View Post
She even has the benefit of being an interesting support, if you can get some mana on her, lucent singularity provides vision, good poke, and a slow, light binding can set up kills or escapes easily, prismatic barrier can save lives and is even handy when tower diving, and you can start with some support stuff, and then build straight AP and act as a back up to your mid.

She's pretty much a long range AP Assassin.
Speaking of Lux's flexibility, that's another thing that was taken away from Ahri. It was previously possible to have a few variations on building her - you could max Foxfire first for higher single target damage. But now, she's only got one build, and it's not even a good one.


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Arai Kitsune

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Senior Member

02-08-2013

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Originally Posted by Riftic View Post
Speaking of Lux's flexibility, that's another thing that was taken away from Ahri. It was previously possible to have a few variations on building her - you could max Foxfire first for higher single target damage. But now, she's only got one build, and it's not even a good one.
You know what the worst part is? Lux not only has 1000 range on all her basic abilities(and like 3000 on her ult), good area control CC, and some utility for allies(her shield), all put together meaning she is one of the few APs that can build pure glass cannon and succeed through careful play. She also has 10 higher movement speed than Ahri.

People used to complain about Ahri being too safe, but Lux has always been safer simply due to her range. An Ahri has to get in range to do things, and if she makes a mistake or someone ganks her, she has to fallback on her brief mobility with her ult to get away, losing a bunch of potential damage and going back to being very slow again. If Lux gets ganked, her root, slow, and shield can save her from most things if she's actually in a bad spot, and to begin with she should never be in a bad spot, once again due to her range.

So, Ahri is a non-mobile mage that relies on mobility, that is required to build squishy to deal any damage but is also required to get into close range, that has mostly copied abilities from other champions, as well as her most damaging spell being non-interactive. She's also a fox champion without a pounce(literally the thing they're best at), nor any illusion or transformation abilities(despite those being core to fox mythology). In fact, before her release there was a picture of her in her true form on a korean website, just before the korean launch for LoL: http://imgur.com/Rvl0Pe8

Personally, I feel like Ahri needs a total rework, possibly with her current ultimate being a regular skill, but with charges. The idea would be that the skill itself would be low enough of a cooldown that she could get one jump every now and then, but with the charges on high enough of a cooldown to be more similar to her current ultimate. You could even make the first jump a pounce to make her actually feel like a fox. She could also use at least one ability that is actually deceptive, and some original abilities for her passive, Q and W.

Note: I don't hate Lux, don't think she's overpowered, and actually think she's better balanced than the majority of mages, while having greater depth. I use her as a comparison to Ahri to show just how much she's lacking for no reason at all.


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Riftic

Senior Member

02-08-2013

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Originally Posted by Arai Kitsune View Post
You know what the worst part is? Lux not only has 1000 range on all her basic abilities(and like 3000 on her ult), good area control CC, and some utility for allies(her shield), all put together meaning she is one of the few APs that can build pure glass cannon and succeed through careful play. She also has 10 higher movement speed than Ahri.
I've always wondered why Ahri's movement speed is so low. There's really no justification for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arai Kitsune View Post
People used to complain about Ahri being too safe, but Lux has always been safer simply due to her range. An Ahri has to get in range to do things, and if she makes a mistake or someone ganks her, she has to fallback on her brief mobility with her ult to get away, losing a bunch of potential damage and going back to being very slow again. If Lux gets ganked, her root, slow, and shield can save her from most things if she's actually in a bad spot, and to begin with she should never be in a bad spot, once again due to her range.
For people complaining about Ahri being safe, I think that was just in reaction to her being new. Her ult was pretty unique and it took people time to figure out how to play against it. Now that she's been around for a while, we can see that those claims were pretty exaggerated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arai Kitsune View Post
In fact, before her release there was a picture of her in her true form on a korean website, just before the korean launch for LoL: http://imgur.com/Rvl0Pe8
That's pretty neat. I haven't seen that before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arai Kitsune View Post
Note: I don't hate Lux, don't think she's overpowered, and actually think she's better balanced than the majority of mages, while having greater depth. I use her as a comparison to Ahri to show just how much she's lacking for no reason at all.
I agree with you. Lux is a good champion. She's a good benchmark. So is Ryze. When you compare Ahri to either of those two, she simply doesn't match up at all.


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Arai Kitsune

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Senior Member

02-08-2013

I wouldn't agree on the Ryze part, but yes, Lux is a good benchmark champion.

I'm partially biased, as Ryze is pretty much a hard counter versus Ahri and requires no mechanical or strategic skill at all, based around skill spam and dealing heavy damage while being tanky. That's one thing I never got, after Ryze's first rework, when he stopped being an assassin, he found his new place as a tanky sustained mage, sort of like Swain. Then Riot buffed him with the intention of making him a spell carry, but left him the same when it came to survivability.

More on topic, I await the day that Riot takes a harder look at their champions and roles, and begins remaking champions, old ones, and any newer offenders of bad design. Looking at that one thread, discussing how champions could be better, and the fact that Riot payed some attention to it gives me some hope. I intend to aid that by remaking every badly designed champion and find like minded people to help push Riot to make changes.

This is the thread I'm talking about by the way. I don't agree with every change, but it's ont he right track for some champions. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3013310

Oh, and for nostalgia's sake, here's that champion suggestion I mentioned. This is just one of many revisions since beta, but I stopped after they released Ahri. It could have used more polish, but I feel like it captured the fox champion concept better. It's worth noting that I came up with her ultimate before Graves existed. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...ighlight=zurui


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Zero Suit Senpai

Senior Member

02-08-2013

I actually miss Ahri :/


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Riftic

Senior Member

02-08-2013

I meant in terms of overall power and flexibility. Ryze is strong in a great variety of teams and against a large amount of champions. He's great at all points of the game and he can build tanky while getting huge damage.
Now, it seems Riot is fine with where Ryze is. He had some changes a little while ago, and they seem perfectly content with his performance. This means that in Riot's eyes at least, Ryze is balanced.

So, if you compare Ahri to Ryze, she just doesn't have anything. She's not as universally useful in team comps as Ryze is, she can't build tanky in the slightest, she's only good in mid game compared to Ryze's all points of the game, and Ryze brings superior damage.

Something has just got to give here, Ahri isn't good anymore.


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Charming Ahri

Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiftsLikeGaston View Post
Health stacking makes it insanely hard to win with her.
This is true. She is definitely worth learning, and people underestimate her often in this meta.

I rush Deathfire's Grasp against health stackers, but doing so can backfire.

Also, Boots of Mobility + Crystal Scepter makes Ahri a beast roamer/ganker.


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AcrobaticApricot

Senior Member

02-08-2013

why do people say ahri is underpowered

sometimes i think there's a guy with a blindfold who puts all the champs on a board and throws darts to determine which gd decides needs buffs


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Criomhthann

Senior Member

02-08-2013

The health stacking meta hit her hard, but that's no different from any other burst APs.

She has 2 saving graces that keep her used.

An Ult that makes it hard to escape her and hard to chase her.
A CC ability that stuns and draws a target towards her at 50% MS for 2 seconds.