Soraka Rework.

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Blaze86420

Member

02-14-2013

Soraka is a great support for champions with lots of harass and are mana hungry, like Ezreal, Miss Fortune, and maybe Sivir. She's fine, please don't buff her.


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RadiantPyrophore

Senior Member

02-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by PikaRioCed View Post
192 games is a pretty good sample size. Obviously I can't know how it is on a high skill level, but what makes you say you can? Her LoL-King winrate looks fine.
Hovering at about 47% in ranked games is not really fine. Sure, she's not super UP like ubernerfed Diana was with 40%ish, but she's definitely below average, and we all know why.


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Effram

Senior Member

02-14-2013

Just because you're a dick i might as well make a few more comments.

Oh no, a grammatical error! You know someone is getting frustrated when they start attacking grammar... Deviating was the right word. Most of your arguments deviate from why you consider her kit bad and focus on bad play styles, and from what I've heard you have no idea how to play her properly. Plenty of other have posted about how great she is, take that as evidence. "Oh, but they're playing against ****ty people!" you' say. Right *sarcasm*, because everyone who plays Soraka consistently well just happens to play against terrible players almost every game *sarcasm*. Flimsy. I do what I claim because I'm good with her, and good laning mid. You're furious because you're bad with her, AND JUST DON"T UNDERSTAND IT! CRUSHING EGO BLOW NOOOOOOO!!

Soraka has an advantage against every mid champion. Fizz is someone who counters her style of play because he can get in, melee with sea stone trident while silenced for damage, then leap out after silence is gone. An obvious counter, one that beats AD casters V Soraka hands down. If you're getting beat in mid by soraka as fizz, you're terrible. A guy I play with a lot plays fizz mid a lot, and I rarely ever see him do anything less than dominate mid. But I doubt you'll believe that and don't expect you to.

Being out cc'ed in mid is, fin soraka's case, a symptom of style of play. If you're getting out cc'ed with her, you're bad with her, because I never have that problem.

Of course Soraka can't always kite people. Teemo is the king of kiting and good players with gap closers can beat him with some skill. Same can be said for any other ranged champions. Those with gap closers are classified as assassins for a reason...

Ad mids who don't have gap closers and CC is anyone who plays an AD in mid without a gap closer and CC. Or was that supposed to be a rhetorical question? Wait, never-mind, it wasn't followed by a "?". You need a better grasp of the English language. Tsk tsk.

I'll keep feeding you rage-ahol (ie tearing down your arguments so easily it's like you took an intro to philo class and think anything that pops into your head is completely sound and valid when really the majority of it self-indulgent bull****) if you keep coming back with personal attacks; it seems like you care about my well-being . You also appear a lot more credible *sarcasm* when you insult people and act like a pompous ass. Keep that up!


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Beldaran

Junior Member

02-14-2013

Soraka doesn't need a buff. Her banana's are OP as snacks.

Seriously though, all the champs in League are (mostly) fine. It's just a matter of skill with certain champs that a lot of people don't innately pick up. Except for Heimer. Because Syndra counters the **** out of him and it's hilarious.


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Armageddal

Senior Member

02-14-2013

+1

I like it. It's very creative, and doesn't seem overpowered (although I'm not the best judge of that). I wonder what this would do to AP Soraka... I'm not sure if it would be a buff or a nerf. Certainly more utility.


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RadiantPyrophore

Senior Member

02-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Effram View Post
Just because you're a dick i might as well make a few more comments.

Oh no, a grammatical error! You know someone is getting frustrated when they start attacking grammar... Deviating was the right word. Most of your arguments deviate from why you consider her kit bad and focus on bad play styles, and from what I've heard you have no idea how to play her properly. Plenty of other have posted about how great she is, take that as evidence. "Oh, but they're playing against ****ty people!" you' say. Right *sarcasm*, because everyone who plays Soraka consistently well just happens to play against terrible players almost every game *sarcasm*. Flimsy. I do what I claim because I'm good with her, and good laning mid. You're furious because you're bad with her, AND JUST DON"T UNDERSTAND IT! CRUSHING EGO BLOW NOOOOOOO!!

Ulnlike you, I actually point out why the things they are doing are bad and how easy they are to counter, then they just come back with "but it works for me!" Well, that's because you're beating people who are not-so-good with it.

Soraka has an advantage against every mid champion. Fizz is someone who counters her style of play because he can get in, melee with sea stone trident while silenced for damage, then leap out after silence is gone. An obvious counter, one that beats AD casters V Soraka hands down. If you're getting beat in mid by soraka as fizz, you're terrible. A guy I play with a lot plays fizz mid a lot, and I rarely ever see him do anything less than dominate mid. But I doubt you'll believe that and don't expect you to.

Fizz depends heavily on the mid and how well they know their stuff, he's actually quite similar to Kassadin, but a bit trickier to counterplay, however, you CAN solidly shut him down as long as you aren't playing something extremely gimmicky like Veigar, who I admit will inevitably get assraped by Fizz without some serious jungle intervention.

However, considering that Fizz's Urchin Strike only has 550 range, Soraka Silence has 725. Basically, Fizz has only one option to get to Soraka before she silences him (which makes it so he can't get to her), and that option is flash before level 6. Fizz loses hard unless Soraka is bad/stupid or Fizz has a camping jungler, you can't argue that.


Being out cc'ed in mid is, fin soraka's case, a symptom of style of play. If you're getting out cc'ed with her, you're bad with her, because I never have that problem.

You have one CC which doesn't restrict mobility, and you don't burst. If your lane opponent is competent, they will either outrange you and never get silenced, or out-trade you after silence wears off by not just running away when you silence them. If they have CC, you are GOING to eat it when your silence wears off. You have exactly 0 means of kiting them if they don't hesitate and let you walk off when you ding them. This is one of the obvious weaknesses to Soraka that any decent Soraka player would know, the other being her insane vulnerability beginning 3 seconds after she casts Astral Blessing and lasting until it comes off CD, which is pretty damn long.

Long story short, unless your opposing mage is bad, has no CC, or is very short ranged or gimmicky, they are GOING to win at CC in mid. End of story, you can't argue it.


Of course Soraka can't always kite people. Teemo is the king of kiting and good players with gap closers can beat him with some skill. Same can be said for any other ranged champions. Those with gap closers are classified as assassins for a reason...

Teemo is okay at kiting, but actually not that great, if you want a truly great kiter try Ashe, Urgot, Vayne, or possibly something weird like Yorick. The problem here is, that Soraka, having absolutely no mobility enhancers and no mobility impairing CC, can't kite 9/10 champions in the game as a whole again, unless they are really ****ing bad. I've stated this over, and over, and over, and yet you continue to ignore it, how stupid are you?

Ad mids who don't have gap closers and CC is anyone who plays an AD in mid without a gap closer and CC. Or was that supposed to be a rhetorical question? Wait, never-mind, it wasn't followed by a "?". You need a better grasp of the English language. Tsk tsk.

It's pretty obviously a rhetorical question, that's why there's no "?" It's also not the whole sentence, good job taking things out of context, I mean, it not like you usually ....OH WAIT! Nice try, but you're still wrong, hypocrite, and "deviate" still doesn't mean what you think it means, a better word would be sidetrack or distract, no, again, hypocrite, that's what YOU are doing. When someone says "Soraka doesn't need a rework I play her like this and it's good!" I point out why it's actually not so good. This is pertinent to the discussion, unlike you spouting over and over "YOU MAD BRO!!!!!"

I'll keep feeding you rage-ahol (ie tearing down your arguments so easily it's like you took an intro to philo class and think anything that pops into your head is completely sound and valid when really the majority of it self-indulgent bull****) if you keep coming back with personal attacks; it seems like you care about my well-being . You also appear a lot more credible *sarcasm* when you insult people and act like a pompous ass. Keep that up!
You assume I'm raging, and yet you're the one who is partly incoherent, repeating the same illogical arguments over and over with no evidence, examples, or theorycrafting while ignoring 100% of the information that displays why you are obviously wrong. You're also pretty much saying "You mad bro." Because you know you are wrong and are trying to discredit me by one of the lamest and most pathetic methods available. I am not mad, however, when ignorant fools like yourself say the same things over and over without reading what I post, I will eventually emphasize certain key points more and more, in an attempt to get through your thick and hollow skull. It's not yelling because of frustration, and if you actually read it you would realize that. I'm just going round and round with you and you don't seem to be learning at all. If you don't actually read anything and/or at least think a sapient thought before next you post, I'm going to ignore you from here on out.

Last, if you feel like I'm being a dick to you or someone else, kindly open your eyes and realize it is because you/they have rightfully earned it.


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RadiantPyrophore

Senior Member

02-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armageddal View Post
+1

I like it. It's very creative, and doesn't seem overpowered (although I'm not the best judge of that). I wonder what this would do to AP Soraka... I'm not sure if it would be a buff or a nerf. Certainly more utility.
It's definitely a buff to AP Soraka as more than just an AoE debuffer/healer late game, I ran the numbers several times to make sure she had decent but not retarded scaling for a semi-dps mage, she can(note, it'd be pretty hard to actually pull off, with some crazyass combo like QWERQWQEQWQE required but...) hit up to 3.45 AP scaling (only after level 16 with all three ranks into ult for full Need power, her scaling at level 6 is only ...adjustment time, it's too high... there, 2.58 AP, and before level 6 it's only 1.95 AP). Keep in mind, she can only put out this high of damage over a minimum of 6 seconds (40% CDR) onto the closest target (otherwise her Extract hits something else and lowers the ratios to [2.85 AP/1.84 AP/1.35 AP]), with no less than 7 skillshots involved. In 6 seconds.

Please remember that her silence lasts only 2.5 seconds, is her only CC, and her range for this combo is no longer than 500 Units. In fact, her only offensive damaging skill with a range longer than 525 (to start) is Abyssal Curse, with a max range of 900 and a skillshot somewhat similar to Ezreal's Mystic shot but with less speed (may need width adjusted, hard to find that info so I guessed). So, to get big numbers she has to be in very close, with only a slow/speed boost and a silence to keep her alive for a minimum of 6 seconds. She also can only do it to the closest target. Pretty much the same deal as always as far as killing her early, but this time she actually gets to fight back a bit and has a (small) chance of escaping. She'd be very much a close ranged DoT mage like Cassiopeia or Swain with this kit, so if she wants to do something crazy, she has to get in really really close to the fight.

Last, I should point out that her base damage over 10 seconds (no CDR) with this kit at level 18 is only 800. She'd really need to actually have an AP heavy build to do good damage, because her scaling is very high, and her bases very low. She'd spend 695 (Edit: 845) mana to do this (this includes the cost of putting her blessings into Curse mode [Edit: And activating Need for ten seconds... damn]) and regain from 100 (Edit: 150) mana, for a total cost of 595 mana (Edit: 695 mana.) This seems perfectly acceptable (Edit: Really damn high) to me, especially considering she can regenerate 100 (Edit: 50) mana every ten seconds on her own if she has creeps/mobs available. (Edit: I'm lowering her curse mana costs, that's way too flipping high).

Pretty much, I designed this Soraka to be able to be a decent support early game, or a mid mage with decent sustain but nothing giving her too massive of an advantage, She'd actually play a lot like Evelynn if Evelynn had a bit more range, no stealth, a not very scary AA, and a ranged silence. She'd do a lot lot of tiny little pokes at fairly close range over long periods of time, trying to wear you down before she comes in close to try and kill you. The way I designed it, if she goes support build, she won't have the damage late game to do a whole lot as far as killing people, but she will have an AoE shield, a burst heal for about 600, a silence, and a weak single target slow, similar to what she gets now if she , ahem, builds Rylais' and spams starcall. Early game she'll be able to opt, at level 1, for a 60 point shield for both her and her carry for 60 mana. or a 50 point heal with 20 armor every ten seconds for 40 mana. It's pretty clear that she can spec to be an aggressive or defensive support from level 1 as well. I also made her able to go for single target or AoE damage early on if she decides to go mid, with single target she gets a bit lower scaling and bases, but higher mana and health sustain, whereas with AoE she can opt for either lower mana or lower health sustain.

I spent a lot of time balancing the numbers and putting the abilities together to make this Soraka a good support for beginners to start learning that can also transition into a very high skill cap strong offensive mage when that Soraka players learns and grows into her abilities over the course of many games. I made it so that if she goes offense she loses the capacity to time or place her support abilities as she would like (she has to blow them all at the same time if she wants good scaling), and if she goes support she won't be doing serious damage. I made it so that if she tries to keep her full and frightening offensive capacity up all day long as a DPS mage, she can actually do it with a cost of 80 mana overall to keep all her abilities cursed per ten seconds (6 with 40% CDR). If she wants to harass, she has to come well into range of counter-harass, but she has the abilities to deal with it if her skill is higher than her opponent's.

Obviously as a mid mage her counter would be things with long range and/or healing reduction. The classic counter-Soraka Miss Fortune comes to mind, as do Tristana and Varus as well as Caitlyn, all of whom are actually pretty well designed to be able to go mid versus mages, most of whom have healing reduction, and high range harass and/or mobility. It's actually a lot like Morgana in that you would want to send the ADC mid to counter it. But unlike Morgana in that instead of building an AoE CC machine mid, you're building a DPS machine mid.

Last, it would feel amazing to play as if you master it, literally raining a barrage of fire and lightning from the sky onto your enemies as DPSRaka, especially with max CDR. Or being able to AoE shield your allies and sustain them with your ultimate burst heal during team fights as SuppOrtRaka.

Edit: I feel I didn't explain this in full, but Infuse/Extract is very, very, very much NeoSoraka's utility spell, it slices (mana to ally), dices (silence to enemy), washes the dishes (stealth detection/brush check), cooks (mini-slows enemy/mini-hastes self), and cleans (restores mana to self, more if cast on enemy Champions). It's THE spell to take if you feel like staging an early game jungle invasion.

Starcall/Meteor shower is OffSuppOrtRaka's bread and butter, it provides a shield to her and her allies, which is better than her heal by far if you actually want to kill someone and not just survive the laning phase. For DPSRaka it's her best option for wave clearing and harassing at the same time.

Astral Blessing/Abyssal Curse is as close to a safe lane option as DefSuppOrtRaka could want, providing both healing to keep her lane alive, and a bit of long ranged poke to tell the enemies to stay away. For DPSRaka it's her safe laning option, providing healing and better range damage, but it's a lot harder to do damage to enemies with it, and it's definitely not what you want for wave clearing capability. So buyer beware!

Wish/Need Is Soraka's Miracle Save capability... and her DPS mage scaling come late game, it also raises the maximum skill cap for Soraka way up high while dropping her entry skill level Need itself doesn't actually do anything actively, I felt that DPSRaka already had a really high number of fast twitch skill shots to deal with to have something else to do too, so I made it a passive. If I and reviewers think that it is appropriate, I might make it a toggle that costs a set amount of mana per second and gives Soraka a morph effect (think Swain) while she has the increased scaling so that she actually has a use for Blue if she's her team's primary AP damage source. Actually, I think I'm going to do it anyways.

Edit #2: I almost felt that DPSRaka's damage potential endgame was too low (800 + (3.45 AP) over 6 seconds) with a 500 AP 40% CDR build only generating 2550 damage over six seconds, but then I remembered that If she hits everything and stays in range she's reducing her single target's MR by 130 points and her enemies' MR in an AoE by 50 points, and suddenly those damage numbers seemed about perfect. Because that's pretty much doubling her damage versus single targets, again, assuming she can hit all 7 skill shots on them in 6 seconds flat (crazy man!). She's also increasing her AoE damage from Meteor Storm from something like 330 + (1.05 AP) to something more like 440 + (1.4 AP).


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RadiantPyrophore

Senior Member

02-15-2013

Never say die.