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WHY is kassadin so broken on dominion and so anti fun for anyone not playing him?

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Zuko Prince

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Most people on the boards are *****ing about kassadin one way or the other, but I think it would be useful to identify why he is so ridiculous on dominion and anti fun for everyone who plays against him.


1. Excessive mobility - can leap farther than normal due to the way his warp works over certain terrain, this would not be completely halted with a fix to his terrain leaping abilities, as long as he has a low cooldown warp, he will have increased mobility. Solution, unsolvable.



2. His Kit - LOW RISK - HIGH REWARD. AP casters are popular, and he can completely shut them down too easily. His silence duration is single target and almost 3s of NO COUNTERATTACKS from AP casters. This creates a situation where even if he is not strong enough to take the caster out one on one, he could leap in and combo silence/slow, and leave before a credible counterattack can be mounted. Rinse repeat.

Now usually when mechanics this broken exist riot creates an item to guard against this cheese factor, but while there is damage reduction on odyns veil and silence reduction lumped in with tenacity, his silence is so long his basic kit still cripples a caster heavy player from counteracting his skillset and being shut down. This goes beyond simply outclassing some specific champs, it's FAR too broad who he can shut down or severely cripple from having effective counterattacks, aside from bruisers or ranged AD. And what if you, like me, never play those characters? Is the only answer supposed to be @$%^ you?

We can do better. QSS is SEVERELY anti malz beyond anyone else, but has other uses with that get out of jail free card. Thornmail is powerful defense against auto attackers. Odyns veil is... what? allows you to survive a burst from kass out of nowhere, ok, and what can you do to him for almost 3s? nothing.

We need something more. I proposed allowing banshees into dominion, but it was rightly pointed out that would buff kassadin more than those trying to attack him. So I think we should focus on an anti silence mechanic. Stick another passive on odyns veil at increased cost. Silence reduction of 50%, and every X seconds completely negates the silence from a spell (NOT DAMAGE).

Kass could still jump in and launch an all out surprise assault, but this time he will often have to deal with immediate counterattacks instead of having the ap forces to sit their and tickle him with an auto attack for nearly 3s.

If that is too much for one item, stick it on something else, but I think this would go a long way to counteracting the anti fun and ZERO risk playstyle kassadin has when facing a caster. Who out there actually thinks kassadin having ZERO counters to that long silence and fast getaway is good gameplay?


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TheLittlestLulu

Senior Member

02-06-2013

I would mention that this will bring Soraka down to tier 6 but who even picks Soraka anymore?


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Zuko Prince

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Quote:
Chillcoldcoolaid:
I would mention that this will bring Soraka down to tier 6 but who even picks Soraka anymore?



That would be an unfortunate side effect, she can be quite effective against certain casters bot with he long silence, but she would be a worthy sacrifice if the upside was toning kassadin down from such an abusively anti-fun level. Perhaps her silence could be altered and changed from a silence to something like reducing the damage/duration of the spells cast for the duration by half?

There are other non silence mechanics that could be quite powerful but not be so "YOU GET TO HAVE ALL YOUR ABILITIES LOCKED OUT"

There is NOTHING more anti fun than that as a mechanic to fight against when you rely on those to play.


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FDru

Senior Member

02-06-2013

He's designed to be anti-caster but his kit makes him basically anti-everything (at least on this map).

He has a couple of weaknesses that just don't come into play in Dominion: mana limitations and AD carries. Crystal Scar Aura gives infinite mana (also health relics, and Kass is one of the best champs to take advantage of them with). You don't see a proper AD carry in Dominion very often, and those you do see are ability-reliant (Vayne, Ezreal, Kog) so are somewhat countered by Kass as well.

I think AA is a big problem in general and one of the things making Kass over the top (and not just Kass). There are so many good mana items for AP casters (in addition to one of the best CDR items in the game), that having a mana-based AP steroid item is kind of silly (in contrast, there is one good mana item for AD champs to fuel Manamune and that is Manamune).

The freedom of movement granted by the "blink terrain bonus" is totally ridiculous in the case of long distance spells like Riftwalk. This is actually a simple fix, if they wanted to. They could limit this distance to a maximum of 800 and that would basically only affect Kass trying to jump huge walls (while leaving short distance blinks like Flash and Crowstorm unchanged). But even if they did this, Kass would still be broken.

You just can't give a champ that's so strictly designed around harsh mana limitations (Kass is basically a mana fueled nuclear bomb) infinite mana and then expect everything to be perfectly fine. He can build strong tank items (Odyn's, FH) and great AP items that all give him tons of mana on top of the Crystal Scar Aura and basically never need to worry about actually running out. So you've got an anti-mage that has been turned into an anti-everything that spams his silence, slow and double-distance Flash ultimate every few seconds with no worries.


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BeefJerkyHunter

Senior Member

02-06-2013

A Kassadin Riftwalks into a bar.
The counter is null and void.


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th3drow

Member

02-06-2013

Quote:
BeefJerkyHunter:
A Kassadin Riftwalks into a bar.
The counter is null and void.


You seriously say this in like every thread like we didn't hear you the first time <_<


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Torkable

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Id just like to thank op for taking the time to analyze kassadin and find out why hes broken, and for taking the time to type up this incredible post.
Its been a complete fricken mystery why kass is as good as he is. Now we know.
I clicked on the forum button with crossed fingers hoping that there would be a new kass thread because there simply are not enough.
Once again, thank you op, keep up the great work.


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Daharahj

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Why are you spamming these threads?

So many "Junior Members" agreeing with him to death.


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Zuko Prince

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Quote:
Torkable:
Id just like to thank op for taking the time to analyze kassadin and find out why hes broken, and for taking the time to type up this incredible post.
Its been a complete fricken mystery why kass is as good as he is. Now we know.
I clicked on the forum button with crossed fingers hoping that there would be a new kass thread because there simply are not enough.
Once again, thank you op, keep up the great work.



One, you are welcome. Two, the real point is to come up with ways to STOP him from being broken, first you need to lay out what the problems are, then you can target those problems with a scalpel. There are straight forward solutions, riot just has not implemented them.


I came up with an anti silence idea, in the other thread there was a feedback mechanic that could be put on a dominion item that would trigger off a single target silence and lock out the casters abilities for a couple seconds and stop his cooldowns from going down for a couple seconds.

You could leave the latter only if wanted. If you did that, that 5.5 ish second ult up again after being blasted with a silence could turn into a 7.5 s until ult up scenario. RIOT is silent and seemingly incapable of coming up with ideas, at least not publicly, and so it's time we stop *****ing and come up with solutions. disable him is not good enough, I don't want kassadin gone, I just want it to be possible to be countered like damn near every other character. And weak sauce ideas like "just tweak his mobility" are not going to cut it. Do better.


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Koravel

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Quote:
Zuko Prince:
One, you are welcome. Two, the real point is to come up with ways to STOP him from being broken, first you need to lay out what the problems are, then you can target those problems with a scalpel. There are straight forward solutions, riot just has not implemented them.


The sarcasm detector is weak in this one.


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