Some are perfect others are incomplete

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Drjonezsauce

Junior Member

02-06-2013

Ok, so I've been playing this game for about three years. I enjoy the game when I'm doing well, but due to the champion choices that I make, I tend to choose champions that are either incomplete, just broken, or only become strong if fed. On top of that it seems like all these champs that I do play end up being nerffed for random reasons.

Personally the first champion that I fell in love with was AP Sion, now I understand that he was strong 3 years ago, but from what I've noticed the nerfs he got were a little much or just kind of stupid. The .5 second off his stun... I feel that was pointless, if it was OP for his stun to be 2 seconds then why wasn't every champion with a 2 second stun nerffed down to 1.5? Lets get away from the nerfs, Sion just seems incomplete and not really thought out. He is godly early game when he is AP but late game he is still good but ya, whereas AD kind of sucks early game and kind of sucks late game unless no one focuses you. Now here is my question about Sion, it seems like either path I go I lose 2 abilities. If I go AD my shield and stun pretty much become **** because Sion's mana bar is so small and all of his abilities cost 70+ mana at level 1 with his stun being 100. I don't really lose them its just they become absolute ****. Whereas if I go AP, ya I have burst with only 2 attacks. My ult becomes useless and Enrage is still good but just not nearly as good as it could be. Which brings me to his passive, seriously? 40% chance to reduce incoming physical damage by 30/40/50. Like really? That was your best effort as a passive for Sion? I don't even notice his passive doing anything 97.345% of the time(fake number). For someone that is a dead zombie, a meat shield and has a huge axe all you could think of was that? Ok let's see, that is probably the worst and I literally mean the worst passive in the game. Just looked through all the champions and not one passive remotely compares to the ****tyness that is Sion's passive. I feel you could improve it by I dont know, making it like Shyvana's passive which just makes all of her abilities better. Or you could keep the same but add on to make it 40% chance to reduce incoming abilities by 100/110/120. Or something along those lines because in its current state it is ****. Alright done with Sion I guess.
Kayle, the only thing I could really change about her is her ult. It should be able to break initial CC, it is kind of ridiculous that my ult doesn't already do that. I mean it makes me immune to freaking everything damage wise and well its a golden bubble. If it can stop damage then why can't it break CC?
Master Yi, ya I like to play him as AP, ya I'm that guy. I don't see why you guys nerffed his heal other than to get the whiners to stop whining. Seriously how hard is it to really stop his heal? Oh one CC, ignite, oh or just attacking him and most likely it won't out heal your damage unless he has 400 to 700 AP.

Oh and here is my list of perfect champions, and by perfect I mean they were completely well thought out as in all of their abilities kind of go off one another. And if the champion can go either AP or AD then the champion's abilities work well both ways to make both paths viable.

Garen
Amumu
Caitlyn
Cho'gath
Ezreal
Fiora
Pantheon
Graves
Kassadin
Katarina
Kog'Maw
Lee Sin
Malzahar
Mordekaiser
Nasus
Nocturne
Nunu
Renekton
Riven
Sona
Teemo
Twisted Fate
Vayne
Wukong
Xin Zhao

Oh and I might as well say it, CD champions need to be removed. By CD champions I mean champions that don't rely on mana/energy/rage/etc. It's a little unfair that these champions don't need to think about their mana and how much they have left and they can just spam with them. On top of that they seem to be on the same timers as champions with mana and such. So if you're going to have champions like that then their CDs should be doubled.

Anyway that's how I feel about this game, that's how I would improve upon some champions. If they seem like changes that would make said champion OP, well they are just initial ideas that can be adjusted. Frankly LoL developers, you need to balance this game more and not make every new champion OP for the first 2 weeks. And im done.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

02-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drjonezsauce View Post
Ok, so I've been playing this game for about three years. I enjoy the game when I'm doing well, but due to the champion choices that I make, I tend to choose champions that are either incomplete, just broken, or only become strong if fed. On top of that it seems like all these champs that I do play end up being nerfed for random reasons.
Highly doubt it's for a random reason. They've been doing calculations and balance for at least 4 years, they've got a really good idea of how to balance the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drjonezsauce View Post
Personally the first champion that I fell in love with was AP Sion, now I understand that he was strong 3 years ago, but from what I've noticed the nerfs he got were a little much or just kind of stupid.
Every single one of his nerfs have been easily justifiable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drjonezsauce View Post
The .5 second off his stun... I feel that was pointless, if it was OP for his stun to be 2 seconds then why wasn't every champion with a 2 second stun nerfed down to 1.5?
Because not every champion has a direct-target stun that matches most AD carries' attack ranges.

And the only other one on the top of my mind, Taric, ALSO stuns for 1.5 seconds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drjonezsauce View Post
Lets get away from the nerfs, Sion just seems incomplete and not really thought out. He is godly early game when he is AP but late game he is still good but ya,
Because he wasn't designed to be an AP champion, the AP ratios on his Q and W were because AD scaling would require nerfs to the skills' base values, and probably wouldn't have good ratios.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drjonezsauce View Post
whereas AD kind of sucks early game and kind of sucks late game unless no one focuses you.
Because he's a true AD carry; carries in general have weak early game and strong late game. A few break this pattern, but it's almost a universal rule.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drjonezsauce View Post
Now here is my question about Sion, it seems like either path I go I lose 2 abilities. If I go AD my shield and stun pretty much become **** because Sion's mana bar is so small and all of his abilities cost 70+ mana at level 1 with his stun being 100. I don't really lose them its just they become absolute ****.
Because when you go AD, your Q is for utility (it's your only way to close the gap) and your W is for defense (never knock on an additional 100-300 HP, in combat that makes quite a difference especially with Armor/MR). This was how he was normally designed to function.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drjonezsauce View Post
Whereas if I go AP, ya I have burst with only 2 attacks. My ult becomes useless and Enrage is still good but just not nearly as good as it could be.
Because, again, he wasn't designed as an AP carry. He only had AP ratios because, in the first year of Riot's design, whenever a champion had an ability that did not directly correlate with basic attacks (i.e. was not an on-hit effect, on-next-hit effect or a spell that applied on-hit effects), the ability would be for utility, and scaled with AP so that they could justify giving it utility or good base damage. Another example would be Ashe's ultimate; it has 700 base damage, a 3.5 second stun on the main target, and a 3 second 75% slow attached to the AoE damage. If it scaled AD, it would need rather massive nerfs to compensate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drjonezsauce View Post
Which brings me to his passive, seriously? 40% chance to reduce incoming physical damage by 30/40/50. Like really? That was your best effort as a passive for Sion? I don't even notice his passive doing anything 97.345% of the time(fake number). For someone that is a dead zombie, a meat shield and has a huge axe all you could think of was that? Ok let's see, that is probably the worst and I literally mean the worst passive in the game. Just looked through all the champions and not one passive remotely compares to the ****tyness that is Sion's passive. I feel you could improve it by I dont know, making it like Shyvana's passive which just makes all of her abilities better. Or you could keep the same but add on to make it 40% chance to reduce incoming abilities by 100/110/120. Or something along those lines because in its current state it is ****. Alright done with Sion I guess.
I do agree that Sion's passive is a bit weak (not the worst by any means, it still compares favorably to Leblanc and Varus), but please remember that Sion has existed for YEARS and hasn't had his kit reworked. I'm pretty sure somewhere I read a list that mentions Sion among others slated for reworking.

And on to your next champion...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drjonezsauce View Post
Kayle, the only thing I could really change about her is her ult. It should be able to break initial CC, it is kind of ridiculous that my ult doesn't already do that. I mean it makes me immune to freaking everything damage wise and well its a golden bubble. If it can stop damage then why can't it break CC?
Because that would be insanely overpowered. You can cast it on anyone in your team, and it prevents ALL DAMAGE. If it also negated or ignored CC, even Poppy would be jealous of that. It's bad enough that Kayle is a hybrid support-carry that has innate Armor/MR shred and damage amplification, let's not give her CC immunity as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drjonezsauce View Post
Master Yi, ya I like to play him as AP, ya I'm that guy. I don't see why you guys nerfed his heal other than to get the whiners to stop whining. Seriously how hard is it to really stop his heal? Oh one CC, ignite, oh or just attacking him and most likely it won't out heal your damage unless he has 400 to 700 AP.
You seem to be overlooking that it had a 4.8 AP ratio AND a +300 Armor/MR buff. And only the heal ratio got nerfed. It still has a good base heal value and the Armor/MR buff. It was inevitable that it would be nerfed for such insane values.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drjonezsauce View Post
Oh and here is my list of perfect champions, and by perfect I mean they were completely well thought out as in all of their abilities kind of go off one another. And if the champion can go either AP or AD then the champion's abilities work well both ways to make both paths viable.

Garen
Amumu
Caitlyn
Cho'gath
Ezreal
Fiora
Pantheon
Graves
Kassadin
Katarina
Kog'Maw
Lee Sin
Malzahar
Mordekaiser
Nasus
Nocturne
Nunu
Renekton
Riven
Sona
Teemo
Twisted Fate
Vayne
Wukong
Xin Zhao
You forgot to list every other champion in the game. All the champions have their kits thought out and worked together for a different design purpose. Some champions are designed to be aggressive, some to be reactive, and others to be supportive. But ALL of them are designed so that their kit has either synergy or flexibility (usually both on higher difficulty champs).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drjonezsauce View Post
Oh and I might as well say it, CD champions need to be removed. By CD champions I mean champions that don't rely on mana/energy/rage/etc. It's a little unfair that these champions don't need to think about their mana and how much they have left and they can just spam with them. On top of that they seem to be on the same timers as champions with mana and such. So if you're going to have champions like that then their CDs should be doubled.
First, Fury is a CD champion. The Fury only benefits skills in their kit on occasion, it's basically a variable stat to boost one or more skills.
Second, CD champions are balanced around not having a resource. You'll think it's unfair because they don't have anything limiting their spam, but pause and think for a second how unfair it would be for mana-based or energy-based champions to have no resource. How bad would it be to lane against Ahri if she was manaless? Fiddlesticks? Brand? God forbid manaless Leblanc...

My point is that the champions who have a limited resource are balanced around that resource, just like the ones who are balanced around only having CDs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drjonezsauce View Post
Anyway that's how I feel about this game, that's how I would improve upon some champions. If they seem like changes that would make said champion OP, well they are just initial ideas that can be adjusted. Frankly LoL developers, you need to balance this game more and not make every new champion OP for the first 2 weeks. And im done.
Riot hasn't been doing patches every 2 weeks for a couple months now, and they've been really good at keeping them relatively balanced on release. Haven't had a Graves/Xin Zhao incident in several months (a lot of scrubs will point to Darius, but he's about as effective as a blanket of piss if you know what you're doing). More importantly, their balance team and their champion design team are two different teams altogether, and they can't just funnel people from one department to another; that's not how it works.

~Sincerely
Exdeadman, a 3 year veteran


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Yhufir

Senior Member

02-06-2013

huh... Ashe isnt on there... wonder why...?

Oh that's right, Riot doesnt give a sh!t about her anymore.


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daxter

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Mordekaiser taint perfect i say he deserves a small buff. I wanna see him in competitive play again


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Shiftless

Member

02-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMyBassCannon View Post
Riot hasn't been doing patches every 2 weeks for a couple months now, and they've been really good at keeping them relatively balanced on release. Haven't had a Graves/Xin Zhao incident in several months (a lot of scrubs will point to Darius, but he's about as effective as a blanket of piss if you know what you're doing). More importantly, their balance team and their champion design team are two different teams altogether, and they can't just funnel people from one department to another; that's not how it works. Exdeadman, a 3 year veteran
You have spoken the truth sir +1 to you


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Drjonezsauce

Junior Member

02-08-2013

First off Morde doesnt need a buff, his shield is better at level 7 than Sion's is at rank 5. As for Kayle you obviously didn't read all of it, I didnt say make her COMPLETELY immune I said make the application of the shield break the initial CC, as in the CC that is currently already on you. So the CC immunity would only last for .2 seconds just to break anything that is already on you. Oh and as for your comment about their fantastic balancing. How can you keep a game balanced when you bring a new champion in every couple of weeks?