Questions Regarding Team Composition

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Simiun

Junior Member

02-06-2013

Hey guys. My friends and I recently started playing together. We are all pretty new. There is just 5 of us. We have been playing Blind picks mainly, and some normal draft picks. But we are still losing a lot, (expected) haha. Anyway, I just had a few questions about team composition.

I'm mainly just wanting to know what we should focus on as a new team? We are all pretty good with our CS. And we know the basics. But I feel like we are missing a lot.

Our typical team comp is: Sona/Vayne, Heimerdinger mid, Garen top, Vi jungle. Now I know from watching pro games that certain team comps have different strengths and weaknesses. Is there any glaring weakness or strength in that comp? Should we be using a more standard comp or something?

I feel like our composition is fairly well rounded, and we do good against other well rounded teams. Where we lose a lot, is against weird comps. Like, a team with no jungle and a mean top duo like Darius/Singed or something. Or no ADC at all and like 4 bruisers w/ an AP mid, lol.

Anyway, any tips regarding team composition or general tips regarding how to play better as a newly formed pre-made would be greatly appreciated!

TLDR: Strength's and weaknesses of this team comp: Sona/Vayne/Heimy/Garen/Vi Jungle? Also, how do you handle the other team going duo lane top instead of jungle?


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Glugthefirst

Member

02-06-2013

I play support mostly so I guess I can try give you some advice about bot lane. Vayne/Sona seems like a good team comp. Vayne is weak early game and needs to farm safely to get stronger, and Sona can protect her by poking the enemy. Vayne/Nunu also used to work well before the new patched nerfed nunu's attack speed and movement speed buff.

As for the other lanes, I could be wrong, but I have yet to see a heimerdinger who can dominate a game. I would choose other champions over him. My favourite is Ryze because he gets tankier late game if you build him right. Same for Garen too, theres other people I would choose.


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Cenerae

Senior Member

02-06-2013

If you're interested in having a strong team comp, you need to look for a playstyle you're all comfortable with, and then pick champions that have synergy within that idea.

If you want a big 5v5 teamfight powerhouse setup, you'd want an AoE initiator, like Amumu or Galio, and some followup or 'preperatory' CC from someone like Sona or Taric to keep people in place. You'd then want to complement that with some good burst AoE damage and champs that can mop up everything that's leftover.

So you'd be looking at maybe...let's say, Olaf top, Katarina mid, Amumu jungle, Vayne and Sona bot lane. Just as an example. It may not be the best team comp and some lanes might struggle depending on the matchups, but you have an idea in mind and the means to do it.

Just try to figure out what style you guys like to play, then think of what kind of champs mesh well with it. Then try to make sure you have at least some CC to initiate or peel with, and some kind of sustained damage.


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Simiun

Junior Member

02-06-2013

Thank you both for your input!

Cenerae, that is awesome advice. I never thought of it that way. Up until now, we have all just been playing what champs we are best at. I never thought in terms of an overall idea or play style, and adjusting our picks to fit that. I love it! We will definitely give it a shot.


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M4nTiCoR3

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Look, I don't know you, your team, or your skill level, but here is what I see. I see a group of guys playing 5v5 ranked with a team comp that tries to emulate a pro strategy, but generally is just shooting from the hip with no plan.

The balanced team comp your team is trying to be, and that the current meta revolves around, is specifically designed to do certain things well and certain things that give it an advantage. If you are not executing those things you might as well all be playing tanks or ad carries. You miss the execution of that comp, you miss out on the strategy and advantages behind it.

The best question you cab ask yourself is this. What is our team trying to accomplish? What specific strategies are you implementing early game, mid game, late game. When and how do you set up ganks, counter jungle, take buffs, grab dragon? What team fight combos do you have that chain well together? Who is initiating, when ,where, and what is the rest of your team following up with everytime they do?

The reason you are likely losing to non conventional Teams is because you guts have yet to gel as a cohesive unit. You are playing with other ranked TEAMS. Many will have specific plans they are trying to execute, and any plan, even a flawed one, when executed well...will beat 5 guys doing their own thing.

I dont see anything inherintly wrong with your team comp, but I also see nothing that stands out as to why you are using those picks other than you like them, they are fun, your good with them, they emulate the meta.

Start getting more specific on what you guys do individually for the team, and together as a team, and you may see some success.

A perfect example of this is to answer this question...

How will your Sons best utilize her ult in a team fight, and whose going to follow it up with their own combo?


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Simiun

Junior Member

02-06-2013

Yeah, I understand that now, gap81. We have just been playing the champs we enjoy or are "best" at. Not playing with any objective in mind. Thanks for the tips! We are definitely going to think of some good team comps and new ideas.

Does anyone know of a place where you can see some standard team compositions with their primary objective? I know championselect.net has their team builder, but I was more thinking of something that also explains how that composition should be played.


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M4nTiCoR3

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Glad our perspectives were helpful. I think you are on the right track. Really keep in mind looking for good synergy between your champions and having very specific and well defined roles each player takes in each phase of the game.

Looking at your team comp, Garen makes a great initiator if built tanky. That can be followed up with a stun from hiemer once the enemy jumps on him, quickly followed up with garens spin fir maximum dps, initiation from vayne and vi, and sona can hold her ult to counter if they get in trouble from a counter attack.

If you can catch 3 or more of their team with that hiem stun, you should win hands down. This might work even better with a Miss Foutune who can destroy teams that get locked down by stuns with her AoE ult. The trick is keeping everyone in position and actually chaining combos at the right times. That only comes with practice, and planning.

Good luck!


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Theungry

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Senior Member

02-06-2013

Just some general team comp types to keep in the file for you:

Poke team - Win through ranged harass and skirmish rather than all out brawls.
AoE powerhouse combos - See Cen's post above
Win fast team - Built around snowball champs that can press an early advantage hard and try to draw a 20 min surrender.
A farm/win late team - A team that gets stronger the longer the game goes via skills/passives that continue to grow/scale. You don't want to win early, you want to delay the mid game as long as possible. You want to gobble up CS and persevere until there is no stopping you.
The bully team - A team tanky enough to control objectives. Probably won't ever ace, but can always get to and eliminate the squishy targets.
A feed the carry team - build to channel all kills to one person and protect them as they dominate.

That's all that comes immediately to mind, but really there are an infinite number of composition concepts. It all comes down to finding an advantage you like, and finding ways to dictate the terms of engagement to favor that advantage.


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Simiun

Junior Member

02-06-2013

Awesome! Thanks for those outlines of compositions, Theungry! That gives me someplace to start.


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Z The Slayer

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Senior Member

02-06-2013

Based on your team comp, you have Garen and Vi, both high-agility bruisers, and both Vayne and Heimer, who can provide a lot of damage so long as they aren't taking too much heat. Warding and counterwarding are going to be very important with your team comp, since a surprise Vi gank can be devastating with a Vayne, and especially with Heimer if the enemy decides to try to kill heimer (people underestimate him and consistently jump him).

A good heimer only has to worry about enemy ganks, and can usually match any mid (except Syndra....it's just horrible) so as long as your Vi has ward support for Heimer, she can counter jungle without having to worry about mid.

I CANNOT stress how important it is to force team fights around heimerdienger. Two turrets with Rylai's shreds an entire team's resistances to nothing. With no pull and Sona's light speed buff (probably underleveled since it's usually maxed last) you'll have to be careful about leaving your team in the dust. All the more important wards can be to intercept enemies, as well as Frozen Mallets to hold enemies in place.


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