Why are so many supports falling off?

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MyDeadGrandma

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricedream5 View Post
Because they don't do damage, and aren't truly tanky enough from items alone with no defensive steroids to be tanks. Teams are full of damage, and full tanky supports are basically making it into a 3v4 for your team. Yes, you can polymorph for 2.5s, but you've only made it into a 3v3 for 2.5s. After that, it becomes 3v4 again. Yes, you can give 600 health, but that disappears in about .1s. Of course, a couple of supports are still strong, but not nearly as before imo. Also, because of more assassins that you see around, it's harder to protect your squishies.
If everybody is all damage and no tanky, then polymorphing someone for 2.5 seconds should be more than enough time for your damage dealers to burst them down.

Where defense is virtually none existent, CC is king.


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TheLittlestLulu

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricedream5 View Post
Because they don't do damage, and aren't truly tanky enough from items alone with no defensive steroids to be tanks. Teams are full of damage, and full tanky supports are basically making it into a 3v4 for your team. Yes, you can polymorph for 2.5s, but you've only made it into a 3v3 for 2.5s. After that, it becomes 3v4 again. Yes, you can give 600 health, but that disappears in about .1s. Of course, a couple of supports are still strong, but not nearly as before imo. Also, because of more assassins that you see around, it's harder to protect your squishies.
You're underestimating how powerful utility can be.

It's just nowadays it seems like you either pick a support that can go full utility or you don't pick support at all.


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BeefJerkyHunter

Senior Member

02-05-2013

You're obviously not playing with enough passion.


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wolferer

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Senior Member

02-05-2013

What about tanky supports? Rammus, Leona and Alistar are pretty good.


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HaIfhearted

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolferer View Post
What about tanky supports? Rammus, Leona and Alistar are pretty good.
The champions you listed are usually treated as full-on tanks in Dominion.

Tanky supports would be things like tanky AP Taric/Lulu/Sona, who usually build so that they can soak a few hits if necessary, but don't quite have the actual bulk necessary to do something like face-tank an entire team for 4+ seconds.


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ricedream5

Senior Member

02-05-2013

I might be underestimating supports, but I feel like you're overestimating them. I'm OK with playing with them unless it's Thresh, but I feel like a Lulu is OP perhaps, but say, a Soraka or Karma just will need to be carried hard.
Ultimately, you look at what tanky supports can offer in comparison with full on tanks. If you look at Alistar/Leona, they're far more tanky and give more/better cc in general. If you look at Rammus/Amumu, those can often end up doing among the most damage to the enemy team by end of the game while being also tankier than supports. The only positive for supports is that they give team utility in shields and heals generally, but we know that since those are flat amounts, they basically disappear instantly nowadays, which is why I feel like supports are much weaker now.


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naotasan

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Because supports start "behind".

At least it feels that way. I can counter build with just about any item I want on champions like Wukong and Garen, but when I play Karma, there are items I need to have in order to be on par with everyone else.

Supports are too item dependent in Dominion right now.

Karma, my main champion for Dominion, has fallen quite far from where she used to stand (speaking for only top lane, bottom lane karma still stronk)


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Sakuri Ono

Senior Member

02-06-2013

To supplement what Half said:

Also to consider is that Leona is not a support. This has been confirmed by Riot many times over. She just happens to be played in that 'role slot' in SR fairly often due to her utility. But when it actually comes to her kit and stat design Leona is intended to be a 'tank', and only a tank. Because of that subtle nuance her design is approached differently than supports who happen to also be able to double as 'tanks'. I don't know the specifics but again, as Riot has said, Support =/= Tank.


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GET REKT FGT

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Senior Member

02-06-2013

Why does nobody mention Soraka??? :O


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Ikruti

Senior Member

02-06-2013

I'd say the biggest question I have after reading this thread is this, really what's the difference between a support and a tank?

Basically what exactly is a support supposed to bring that a tank doesn't? Most tanks bring a fair amount of utility and CC and even some decent damage, that is by design so that you don't have everyone ignoring them.

If supports are supposed to build tanky utility, then is it just a matter of say, if a tank is Sturdy of 10 and Utility of 8, then a Support is supposed be a Sturdy of 8 and Utility of 10? But with the new S3 changes, it seems more like tanks are not as defined by their item choices but their abilities that give them durability. So it's like tanks went to Sturdy of 7 and Utility of 8 while supports went to Sturdy of 4 and Utility of 10.

So yeah, honest question here, I'm struggling to understand how a support role isn't just a subset of a tank role, can anyone please help clarify?