I played well over a THOUSAND dominion games with no revive...

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General Quackers

Senior Member

02-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by phyerbert View Post
Yeah, I think I understand what you're trying to say now Duck, at this point I just disagree with you.
I can appreciate that, but no one has yet explained how using Revive on Dom is similar to using Flash on SR.


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phyerbert

Member

02-15-2013

I don't think it is, they're very different. I think what people are highlighting is that for each map these spells are viewed as the strongest choices so you see those spells dominate over anything else. You could argue that the strength of Flash reduces the variety of spells chosen in SR so it takes away from the game. It's a must have so it eliminates the variety of one spell slot for SR. Riot has even tried to address this in spell balances before. But the sheer mobility of it sets it above the rest for that map.

That's the similarities they're pointing out.

I'd say that the linking factor I see is that for every "revive OP" thread there is in dominion, there's a "Flash OP" thread in SR. But that's about it. But again, my opinion is that both spells are fine as is. My opinion is that all player have access to revive, so you have the ability to even the field.


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General Quackers

Senior Member

02-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by phyerbert View Post
I don't think it is, they're very different. I think what people are highlighting is that for each map these spells are viewed as the strongest choices so you see those spells dominate over anything else. You could argue that the strength of Flash reduces the variety of spells chosen in SR so it takes away from the game. It's a must have so it eliminates the variety of one spell slot for SR. Riot has even tried to address this in spell balances before. But the sheer mobility of it sets it above the rest for that map.

That's the similarities they're pointing out.

I'd say that the linking factor I see is that for every "revive OP" thread there is in dominion, there's a "Flash OP" thread in SR. But that's about it. But again, my opinion is that both spells are fine as is. My opinion is that all player have access to revive, so you have the ability to even the field.
It's not a simple matter of "this spell is best on this map and all players have access to it". If you only look at it to that extent, all you see is the reason why people are taking 10/10 Revive in Dom games. When that occurs, Riot has to judge if 10/10 Revive generates more gameplay or if it stagnates gameplay. In the case of Revive on Dom, 10/10 Revive is stagnating gameplay by being too much more effective per use than any other summoner spell while generating only a single type of gameplay despite there existing 10 instances of the spell. This differs from 10/10 Flash on SR because with 10/10 Flash on SR, it is possible to see 10 uses of Flash that are all unique from one another; thereby making it possible to generate 10 types of gameplay by bringing the same spell 10x over.

This is what people are ignoring when they fall onto the old crutch of "it worked out for Flash on SR" to make their arguments as to why seeing 10/10 players bring the same summoner spell to every game is perfectly fine.


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The Bark

Member

02-17-2013

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Originally Posted by Original Duck View Post
It's not a simple matter of "this spell is best on this map and all players have access to it". If you only look at it to that extent, all you see is the reason why people are taking 10/10 Revive in Dom games. When that occurs, Riot has to judge if 10/10 Revive generates more gameplay or if it stagnates gameplay. In the case of Revive on Dom, 10/10 Revive is stagnating gameplay by being too much more effective per use than any other summoner spell while generating only a single type of gameplay despite there existing 10 instances of the spell. This differs from 10/10 Flash on SR because with 10/10 Flash on SR, it is possible to see 10 uses of Flash that are all unique from one another; thereby making it possible to generate 10 types of gameplay by bringing the same spell 10x over.

This is what people are ignoring when they fall onto the old crutch of "it worked out for Flash on SR" to make their arguments as to why seeing 10/10 players bring the same summoner spell to every game is perfectly fine.
I'm with the duck (condescending or not, I think he's right). I think revive being so powerful on Dom, makes it a must have, and reduces the diversity of gameplay on this map. I'd like to see it either adjusted, or blocked from Dom, until they can adjust it on this map.