Sight ward price too high?

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RampaginPhoenix

Junior Member

02-02-2013

Please tell me there are other support players out there that hate this patch. Even at the lower price i hated having to save up for it. Now its EVEN higher, and I have to postpone my build even further. I understand that it needs to be high so that other roles don't but it, but geeze Riot.


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Mradr

Senior Member

02-02-2013

Not the only one buddy... http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=3074729 my post was below yours... give it a thums up if you liek the idea/change... At least give me some feedback to what you think...


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Meroy

Senior Member

02-03-2013

The proper solution to people getting such easy access to ward was to make oracle viable again. Like, last until death just like before.
I want oracle back.


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Glugthefirst

Member

02-03-2013

When i heard the news I initially thought it was a bad move, however when I tried it out it still seems worth buying say, after I buy a phil stone. You get slightly more health with it also, and thats not really a bad thing.


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Mradr

Senior Member

02-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glugthefirst View Post
When i heard the news I initially thought it was a bad move, however when I tried it out it still seems worth buying say, after I buy a phil stone. You get slightly more health with it also, and thats not really a bad thing.

You loss your opening with sightstone tho by increasing the cost...... check out the other post to understand why... I gave different out comes to understand this...

To sum up tho: Because the sightstone cost increase, it means you have ot get it later (what they're hopeing for), but while increasing the cost seem like the right thing... it's not because that's also downtime you have to get more wards for... meaning the cost to ward for the sightstone never comes out even enough for the item... You are really better off just buying more wards at this point.

Lets look at some math here:
Most people will pull off at least 12 wards with their sightstone...
so old cost 700 / 12 = 58 per ward
and the new cost 950 / 12 = 79 per ward

Now... from this math... we can see that old sightstone was a bit OP in that the cost per ward was really cheep, and we can also see the new sightstone is only a few more coins... That's fine, but we also have to add the new cost of the down time for more wards till we can make up for the now increase cost of about 250.

So lets add in our GP 10 (masterys + runes + prop stone). Lets also add in our pasive gold gain of 16... so we're only making 26 every 10 seconds.

The time to just make that 250 is about ((250/26) n * 10) = 100 seconds or 1min and 40seconds...

Doesn't sound so bad...when said like this... but this is only half the math sadly... Now lets add in our time it took to also get the prop stone and then we'll look at the total time we were down in wards...

Not counting our starting items here... lets just get the prop stone as it's another 350 gold... We can't use the same math as above because that's using GP 10... we don't have it yet... we're going to have to cut 5 gold out of the math there. This comes out to ((350/21) n * 10) = 170 or about 3mins worth of down time...

Now lets add all the time up now... so we're talking about almost 5mins worth of down time we're stuck with that we will have to make up in wards... All wards last for about 3mins if they're not pick off (lets say at least 1 ward will be pick off in lane phase... lets also say at least 1 ward will be used in the bushes (so any starting wards will have already be 'used').... They also cost 75 each, so 5 / 3 is about 2 wards * 75 = 150 gold that we will be set back to get the new sightstone...

So lets add in the time it takes to also make that 150 gold back....

150 / 26 = 6 * 10 = so another 1 min...

As we can see.. we wont be getting the sightstone untill at least 8mins in to the game. The real cost also increase from 250 to actully 400 because of the added need for more wards to make up the cost differents....
From then on... each ward from the new sightstone is really:
1100/12 = 92 per ward. That's a really #$#^ big jump for getting a sightstone now >.>; Aka you are better off buying wards now instead of buying the sightstone... they really $#%@# it over now.


Sources: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Gold


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Sexelady

Member

02-04-2013

if you only pull off 12 wards with your stone you aren't playing support properly.
lets say lane phase ends at around 15:00, if you've been warding as you should have, river and tri and occasionally side bush, you'll have dropped 12 wards by then, then at least another two dozen during mid/late game.
also, you forgot about the free health that comes with the sightstone


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FlyingFortress

Senior Member

02-04-2013

The thing riot's missing is that rushing SS made us flexible. If we're getting our teeth kicked in i can still put down wards. i can now afford counterwards. i don't NEED a gp5 item. I don't NEEd to wait 25 minutes for the gold back on a pittanance of regen. i can build OTHER STUFF that doesn't use a philo or a kages.

i mean, thats what they wanted, right? more options for supports? lets open up new build paths.


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TealNinje

Senior Member

02-04-2013

Philo Stone and Kage's Lucky Pick make me at least 1000g each in pure profit when I play support. Then I can sell them for betters item or upgrade them to Shurelya's/that ice buff thing.

I also have a Ruby Sightstone, making me pure cash from the moment I buy it while also giving me slot efficiency and flat health.


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67chrome

Senior Member

02-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mradr View Post
Lets look at some math here:
Most people will pull off at least 12 wards with their sightstone...
so old cost 700 / 12 = 58 per ward
and the new cost 950 / 12 = 79 per ward
Right, let's completely ignore the fact it offers Hit Points, which is the most cost-effective stat early game. You should isolate the unique effect on an item if you want to actually find it's value, otherwise you're math is never going to be accurate enough to discern the value of anything with more than 1 attribute.

The original Sight Stone charged 225 gold for the warding bonus (700-475=225). Which made it give you free wards after using the passive exactly 3 times, as 225/75 (the price of wards) = 3.

With the cost increase to 900, you're charged for 5 and 2/3 wards rather than 3. So if you use it more than 5 times, you get free wards (or at least part of a ward, for the 6th one).

900 gold is going to be irritating to come up with now though.


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Mradr

Senior Member

02-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67chrome View Post
Right, let's completely ignore the fact it offers Hit Points, which is the most cost-effective stat early game. You should isolate the unique effect on an item if you want to actually find it's value, otherwise you're math is never going to be accurate enough to discern the value of anything with more than 1 attribute.

The original Sight Stone charged 225 gold for the warding bonus (700-475=225). Which made it give you free wards after using the passive exactly 3 times, as 225/75 (the price of wards) = 3.

With the cost increase to 900, you're charged for 5 and 2/3 wards rather than 3. So if you use it more than 5 times, you get free wards (or at least part of a ward, for the 6th one).

900 gold is going to be irritating to come up with now though.

No I didn't forget it... but you are also forgetting the cost to life raito is very poor on the item now. You can "save" that 600 gold you get from normal warding and use it to buy ruby and then get a faster Aegis of the Legion or Locket of the Iron Solari. Now you are a head of the other support and not limited to placing only 2 wards at any time.

Btw.. it's 950... not 900. If it was 900 or better yet 850, I mighte ok with the increase cost then. Reasonable nerf, but this current nerf increase the cost all across the board. By cost... I don't just mean in gold... I mean also in time. TIME is a big factor when playing support. We don't get CS... so time is what we have to deal with.

TS adreast.dyndns.org if you want to talk about it more.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexelady View Post
if you only pull off 12 wards with your stone you aren't playing support properly.
lets say lane phase ends at around 15:00, if you've been warding as you should have, river and tri and occasionally side bush, you'll have dropped 12 wards by then, then at least another two dozen during mid/late game.
also, you forgot about the free health that comes with the sightstone
As I said above... not worth the increase cost for "free health". I also said most people get in at least 12 wards... I never said they ONLY use 12 wards. I was also reffering to laneing phase... not grouping phase... that's what ter2 sightstone is for...

You also don't add in the -1.3 of game start... you also don't add in the time you get the sightstone... you also don't add in pink wards... (hell.. .you also don't add in any other items to your build... you are behinde already in terms of whatever the other support might be getting at this point) go to my thread here: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=3074729 and you'll see I already have did some math adding some of that into a build...


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