@Riot bots are too hard for new players

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NegaStoat

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Senior Member

02-05-2013

One thing to keep in mind with your wife playing on a new account is that Intermediate bots gain a few things over players. They have level 30 rune page and mastery bonuses. They also have an inherent +20% or greater cooldown reduction before other bonus sources. They do not get gold for kills of any sort, but they do have a very steady progression of item purchases linked off of their leveling.

New players on new accounts won't have runes. They'll have next to nothing for masteries. Because of the inherent CDR that bots enjoy, you will see Ults tossed around far more often (malzahar & karthus bots are the big culprits of this).

So intermediate bots are pretty damn brutal if 2 out of the 5 team players are dying like lemmings over and over. Again, this is assuming the whole team has summoner level >20 accounts with naked runes and poor experience.

Not dying, last hitting, and snowballing over bots when they make their single minded mistakes is the only way to get a match won early. And all 5 players have to be doing this.


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slamor

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by NegaStoat View Post
One thing to keep in mind with your wife playing on a new account is that Intermediate bots gain a few things over players. They have level 30 rune page and mastery bonuses. They also have an inherent +20% or greater cooldown reduction before other bonus sources. They do not get gold for kills of any sort, but they do have a very steady progression of item purchases linked off of their leveling.

New players on new accounts won't have runes. They'll have next to nothing for masteries. Because of the inherent CDR that bots enjoy, you will see Ults tossed around far more often (malzahar & karthus bots are the big culprits of this).

So intermediate bots are pretty damn brutal if 2 out of the 5 team players are dying like lemmings over and over. Again, this is assuming the whole team has summoner level >20 accounts with naked runes and poor experience.

Not dying, last hitting, and snowballing over bots when they make their single minded mistakes is the only way to get a match won early. And all 5 players have to be doing this.
I can carry 4 people with vayne. Split push for the win. Just play ping pong with the bots. This is super easy to do.

This is also a total troll thread.


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K rent

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeezy102 View Post
I've been playing since Leona dropped, so while I'm not like.....an OG or anything, I've been around for a while. When I first picked up this game, I was instructed by a veteran friend to start out playing bots until I really felt comfortable enough to go play with actual people.

I feel like thats really, really good advice.

Recently, my wife started playing, she saw that I'm always playing and became interested, and now she likes to play as well. She plays Ziggs because "he's cute". I don't question her motives, I'm just happy my wife is actually playing video games instead of telling me to stop playing them, like I see many other girlfriends/wives do to their significant others.

I watched her play her first few bot games, and man... I don't remember bots being that smart when I first set out into what was a new gaming world at the time. I watched them stagger their CC spells, gank, zone..... everything. I was looking at it like hey... did you accidentally queue up for a normal game?

Bots should be absolute cannon fodder for noobs. If you want harder bots, you can set the difficulty, but the baseline bots should be right up there in intelligence with primates. They should roam around, cast a few spells here and there, farm terribly, and pretty much give the beginner playing the bot game a decent chance to successfully get a handle on the game. Like I said, if you want a challenge, you just change the difficulty.

But these were NORMAL bots doing these advanced things...
Luckily, my wife is a persistent one, and she clawed her way through the game going 8/9/5 or something like that.

Riot, is there a way to make an "easy" bot or something? I mean, I can't be the only person introducing people to this game as their very first MOBA ever, and the Normal bots, to me, seem a little bit extreme for players who are just starting out.
beginner bots already do this, ryze bot literally runs up to you w's then runs away arms flailing. CC will always be a problem for new people.


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Lethminite

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by NegaStoat View Post
One thing to keep in mind with your wife playing on a new account is that Intermediate bots gain a few things over players. They have level 30 rune page and mastery bonuses. They also have an inherent +20% or greater cooldown reduction before other bonus sources. They do not get gold for kills of any sort, but they do have a very steady progression of item purchases linked off of their leveling.
Im pretty sure that's actually wrong (except for the money part).
I remember reading that they have level 20 masteries, and some runes, but not all.

They don't have any bonus stats that humans wouldn't.

Which still makes them too hard for low level accounts, but makes them too easy once you hit 30.

They do however have perfect map awareness (lux/karthus ults) and perfect group focus/reaction time (get low in team fights = you die) which is so unnatural it's frustrating because you know you'd never die in a real teamfight like that.


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netkitten

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Senior Member

02-05-2013

it's true, int bots stomp new players and sometimes even not new

i still remember one int coop vs ai on euw (i just pushed as sivir to win it, it was the only way) with 0/11/4 nidaree 30lvl who mained nid in 3v3 ranked (i stalked their lolking :P)


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slamor

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by netkitten View Post
it's true, int bots stomp new players and sometimes even not new

i still remember one int coop vs ai on euw (i just pushed as sivir to win it, it was the only way) with 0/11/4 nidaree 30lvl who mained nid in 3v3 ranked (i stalked their lolking :P)
There is always a way to beat the intermediate bots. So easy to drag them back to base 24/7 by split pushing allowing the team to have some breathing room.


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dredzach

Senior Member

02-05-2013

OP, you are exactly right.

Beginner bots are WAY too hard for new people.

I have two gaming friends that primarily play MMOs and have been gamers for 10+ years.

I made a 5-man premade including the two new people and we played against beginner bots. While I can easily get some absurd score like 40-1 against beginner bots, the new people had such a hard time. I played like 10 games with them. Sometimes I picked a healer and just did nothing but protect the new person, trying to tell them when to back up or move forward.

The result was my 2 friends who were new kept getting scores like 0-8 against the bots. It was really hard for them to even get a kill cause the bots would always run away making it so you really had to be on the ball to finish them. I feel like most people would just give up when they can't even get one kill. I felt so bad for my buds -- one of them was saying "man I really suck at this game sorry guys." Only thing left would be for that person to say "man I just suck AND feel like I will never get better so I give up!".

I agree with OP that beginner bots should be dumb as bricks with 1 second delay to every action they take, cause new people are just trying to learn the mechanics of the game, clicking creeps, using spells, etc. Current beginner bots should be called intermediate bots, and the current intermediate bots should be labeled as hard bots.


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The Bushmaster

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by slamor View Post
One computer and sharing account of course.
This, actually, but we don't share accounts, she has her own.

And we used beginner bots.

Seriously why does GD always automatically assume someone's retarded...


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The Bushmaster

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by dredzach View Post
OP, you are exactly right.

I agree with OP that beginner bots should be dumb as bricks with 1 second delay to every action they take, cause new people are just trying to learn the mechanics of the game, clicking creeps, using spells, etc. Current beginner bots should be called intermediate bots, and the current intermediate bots should be labeled as hard bots.
I agree whole-heartedly. They should be stepped up and an "easy" bot should be implemented, or just re-code the beginner bots to actually be well.... beginner bots.


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Qsario

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Maybe it seems harsh, but you only learn by playing against better opponents. And yes, there have been many times where I wished I could trade someone on my team for a bot.

Just keep practicing and you'll ROFL stomp them even playing a new champ.