Man... Sion's model is terrible.

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Shingo

Senior Member

02-05-2013

I think visually he needs to be more.. aggressive.

he may as well have a magic wand at the moment because he does nothing with the axe.

Turning his stun into an axe throw would be a good starting point if you are sticking with his kit


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Gorlok

Senior Member

02-05-2013

less "beefy" more undead , look that represents his skillset more.


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The Sound

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Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotAmes View Post
Hm. Okay- good feedback! I wonder if the problem is that he's very dated, so it's hard to make that connection? Or is it just that the original theme wasn't executed very well?
I would say both. Outdated model. Plus his playstyle isn't very "RAWR SMASH FACE", especially when played as AP, when it's a Q + W combo then run away. Especially in team fights.

Why is the gigantic zombie running away from everyone like a pansy?

...

ಠ_ಠ


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Pessimist

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02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotAmes View Post
Sion definitely needs some love. What would your expectation for an update be? His current (typical) gameplay doesn't really lend itself to 'beefy guy with axe'. Do you think we'd need to change the kit or visuals in order to get something cohesive, or would you be satisfied with a straight improvement of his looks with his current abilities?
change all of it

currently sion fills a really small niche [ap mid] and almost every other mage outperforms him in that role.
sure, sotd/ravenous hydra sion is pretty cool too but why take that over tryndamere, who is also pretty 'meh' feeling

would really love an actual undead warrior dude who either was very.. explosive (ap), or actually bruisery.

he sacrifices his shield being useful when he goes ad, but also sacrifices the aoe lifesteal if he goes ap, now that lich bane is magic damage only
can we please slide him into one stable build? you don't really benefit in any way by picking sion since he loses a major part of his kit depending on which way you build him.


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Shozaku

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotAmes View Post
Sion definitely needs some love. What would your expectation for an update be? His current (typical) gameplay doesn't really lend itself to 'beefy guy with axe'. Do you think we'd need to change the kit or visuals in order to get something cohesive, or would you be satisfied with a straight improvement of his looks with his current abilities?

Havent read anything else in this thread so sorry if I repeat something someone else said, just wanted to reply to this one.

I do love the idea of sion. In his current form he can be made into an AP Caster or an AD Auto attacker. While it seems like his AP side is what is getting the majority of the hate because he simply cannot make use of all of his spells, I believe the AD sion role is much better to go with. However his gameplay doesnt need to change much from what it is as it is near perfect in my opinion. The only thing I believe should change is his passive. It does not fit with his kit at all it seems. Not to mention it seems like it is alot like Dodge - if you got rid of dodge then shouldnt you get rid of this?

Having something that may assist him being a dual build option might be an idea. Possibly lowering his ratios/bases and giving him something to give damage based on defensive stats? Dunno if that would work or even be balanced but it fits the theme of beefy guy with an axe :P

This is just my 2c. Would be nice to have him a bit more viable again ^_^


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Comrade281

Senior Member

02-05-2013

If his anatomy could be updated more, a big undead warrior is very very cool champion look and it would be cool if he kept it. Rageborn mundo for example does an incredible job of smoothing out that model but Sion's model is so bad it needs so serious changes XD.

His kit, the death stare could use a more violent animation and his shield can go i dunno what to put in its place but no more shield.


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Pessimist

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02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shozaku View Post
snip
Really feels like Thresh's passive would have went WAYYYY better on Sion.


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Aeaeros

Master Recruiter

02-05-2013

I think some of Sion's kit can work wonders though, they just aren't polished enough.

For example, he's an axe-wielding, beefy undead who is ravenous. Wait, why does he have a stun? And why is he only tanky if he eats a lot of things OR builds AP for his shield?

Why does he have a shield to begin with? Oh wait, his name is also a play (and some Rioters still call him scion, also sounds like psionic, hmm!)

What I think needs to be improved first and foremost:

His stun needs to graphically be an axe throw. Also, there's absolutely no reason why an axe throw shouldn't scale off of both AD and AP. A hurling axe is coming towards me.

When I think of him as being undead, zombie does not spring to mind; however there are other kind of undeads, like undead abominations (come on, I know half of you raided Naxxramas).

Be cool he could ACTIVELY eat something for a short-term buff as well. Spin it as eating a corpse energizes him or gives him more life or more health (healing health, not max health). Shift power-away from his health stacking passive perhaps to make this work (as in, maybe lower the amount of health he gets per a kill, but allow him to eat something as an active heal).

I also would honestly tie his shield on to the number of corpses he has consumed (or his max health). I get the impression another theme of the Sion design was he's a monster who got stronger as he ate things which made him tankier and beefier. A shield is a huge part to a tank design.


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Lethminite

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotAmes View Post
Hm. Okay- good feedback! I wonder if the problem is that he's very dated, so it's hard to make that connection? Or is it just that the original theme wasn't executed very well?



It's in the shop. You have to buy it first. What kind of game do you think this is, giving out free hats?
I think his shield needs to really drive home the undead feeling, something along the lines of kathus's spirit's spiraling him (when he gets back mana i think?).
And since his shield is his defineing spell when AP, i think it visually should scale with AP too if thats possible.

His problem is that he visually makes sence as AD, but AP people are like "magic explode shield?" and i think if the shield scaled visually too, so for AP, visually he became defined by the shield, he could make much more sence.

A simple example could just be a super dark glow, malzahar E style, while spirits circle him, spiraling fast and faster as it gets closer to exploding, and he gets 1 spirit per 100 points of the shield, so AD would end up with just 3 spirits, while AP would have like 8 late game.
Have it look really impressive, impressive enough to overshadow his huge axe.

He's clearly undead from the load screen, he's got frankenstien's monster style stiches everywhere.


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Jack of Fury

Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotAmes View Post
Hm. Okay- good feedback! I wonder if the problem is that he's very dated, so it's hard to make that connection? Or is it just that the original theme wasn't executed very well?



It's in the shop. You have to buy it first. What kind of game do you think this is, giving out free hats?
I'm really wishing for a shambling zombie warrior with a huge two handed weapon.

He doesn't have to be this bulky and fat looking, I would like a slim, awesome looking skeleton in some sort of armor or just scrapes or armor and maybe an old helmet on him with a huge axe.

That's scary and badass, and I would love to see Sion like that, it would make a lot of sense.

However, I don't think you guys can pull off a rework without first reworking his kit and figuring out which direction he should go in.

To be honest he should definitely stay somewhere in the area of hard to kill melee AD with insane lifesteal.

The hard to kill part can come from the fact that he's undead and just won't stay down, like those creepy zombies that you beat up and they keep shambling towards you. Except this undead has a huge axe. And he's badass.

If he would end up being a mage he would have to lose the iconic axe and therefore might as well make a new champion with the same name, since nothing signature about Sion would remain.

I would scrap the shield, make the stun more interesting or remove it altogether to allow room for better expansion of his other abilities, etc.

Definitely rework those animations, no amount of giving him attack speed can help that feel less like a grandma hitting things. He needs nice fluid axe swing animations.

If you keep the stun it should maybe be an instant stun with his eyes glowing with red light before the target gets stunned, and making a crazy undead noise, rather than shooting this weird stun projectile thing that doesn't look cool at all, ever.

I don't know lol, just rambling but, I would love Sion to be cool because I love undead and dark things in games and I feel like this is a great opportunity for you guys to satisfy that itch.

We're not gonna get another undead warrior guy with an axe because Sion exists, so might as well make Sion badass.

Also I'm not sure the Arnold Schwarzenegger parody voice is still something he should have, I would rather go for some scary ghost-like noises, characteristic of undead ghouls.

A fantasy in role playing games that is still unrepresented in League is the badass undead warrior that just jumps in and smashes everything to bits and never dies, I feel like Sion should do that, maybe he should have a skill where he jumps in with his axe somewhere far, hitting the ground so hard everything gets knocked back, or something like that? Maybe it could knockback both allies and enemies, giving it an insanely powerful feel to it, which is what I think he should have. His abilities should FEEL like they hit very hard, even IF they don't. It's all in the feel IMO.

I would see Sion looking something like this:

http://elder-of-the-earth.deviantart...rior-104925697

or even like this minus the shield

http://khezug.deviantart.com/art/Eli...rior-335515838

by the way a huge two handed sword is still more infinitely badass than a huge two handed axe, JUST SAYING IMO *hides*