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Que Dodging, an in-depth look. And a shot at a fix.

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Smithe

Junior Member

02-07-2013

I know i am not the only one here who would rather sit through 5, nay 10 lobby Ques with dodges than play a game where you know from the start it's a lost cause because of trolls (typical example is stubborn lane picks) The Que dodge punishment should be all that's really necessary, now players are punished extra by going the smart thing and taking a bullet for the whole team and dodging.


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Feleas

Senior Member

02-07-2013

Quote:
LP are supposed to be a ranking of skill. Keeping you matched up with people who are about your skill level and keeping games fun and close. While people will still leave, leaver-buster helps that, people will still feed, we have the tribunal, but these pre-game trolls can't be punished! Unless someone personally writes out what happened before the game in chat and posts it, mid-game. It isn't recorded for the tribunal, and there is no way to report people pre-game. only post-game. So why do we lose skill ranking for dodging games? The timer is fair, as it helps keep people from abusing the system as it is. But losing LP makes no sense. That is like saying "You stole a cookie from the cookie jar, so your school grade was reduced as punishment," it is the wrong punishment for the crime


yeah I find this to be highly rediculous too. either give a system that allows pre-role selection before you queue up, make the champ select order be random, OR give right to kick in pre-game lobbies so as to kick trolls and bring you back to re-queue.


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8thful

Junior Member

02-09-2013

Current system is horribly flawed because it punishes the players that want to win and doesn't do anything to the trolls.

I totally support idea to vote dodge in champ select, no idea why this hasn't been implemented considering how many trolls ruin games at champ select.

As for just straight up dodging, I have a buddy who played his first game of silver 4, dodged because of troll double-role pick and lost 20 points, carried his next game and won and got 24, now he is sitting at a whomping 4 points because of a troll, unacceptable.

I really hope Riot realizes their current system is incomplete and needs work.


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NauFirefox

Senior Member

02-09-2013

Quote:
SpiralAero:
Well its more summarized and easier to read ^^ and you should ask for shoutouts to be more well known :3
-SpiralAero
P.S maybe we can play together sometimes :P

Sounds good, My summoner name is NauFirefox (as if you can't see that >_&lt, just add me! ^_^


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NauFirefox

Senior Member

02-09-2013

Quote:
8thful:
Current system is horribly flawed because it punishes the players that want to win and doesn't do anything to the trolls.

I totally support idea to vote dodge in champ select, no idea why this hasn't been implemented considering how many trolls ruin games at champ select.

As for just straight up dodging, I have a buddy who played his first game of silver 4, dodged because of troll double-role pick and lost 20 points, carried his next game and won and got 24, now he is sitting at a whomping 4 points because of a troll, unacceptable.

I really hope Riot realizes their current system is incomplete and needs work.

I honestly think the issue is they couldn't figure out a system that most people would be ok with, without it being a way to take advantage of the system. I also want to point out any dodge system should be disabled in Team ranked. Unusual lane compositions are part of the game and that is the best place for them, with people you know and forcing your team to adapt to an enemy all support team is legit.


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NauFirefox

Senior Member

02-09-2013

Quote:
Feleas:
yeah I find this to be highly rediculous too. either give a system that allows pre-role selection before you queue up, make the champ select order be random, OR give right to kick in pre-game lobbies so as to kick trolls and bring you back to re-queue.

They can't do pre-Que role selection, as they have stated they want to support unusual team compositions and people willing to step out of the meta, hell, I've played an all ADC game cause the first pick ASKED NICELY for us to give it a shot, and it worked wonderfully cause the enemy team had no AoE. So they could kill 2-3 of us quickly before they would be all dead. The point being, they asked, they didn't force it, no-one would have voted to dodge. And I was in a good enough mood to say I was up for it. Glad I did lol. Judging by his behavior he would have gone to the normal meta if we said no too.

A kick system I think would also be a great solution. Maybe even better. The whole champ select screen grays out and says "A summoner is being substituted. Please wait." Then the ONE troll is removed for another person and the timer for the picking summoners is reset, hopefully they are one of the non-poisonous members of this community. I'll add this to the front page with more edits and credit to you.


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NauFirefox

Senior Member

02-09-2013

Quote:
lFalse Kingl:
This game would be much better if it matched players a bit equally. Put feeders with feeders, average with average, and pros against pros. Those who are willing to get better wins. The currently one just matches you randomly. No one would be dodging if they were put with players of the same value OR CLOSE.

The issue with that is the only raw data they can gather atm for matchmaking is wins/losses. Maybe honor, and that's really something that would take time to connect to the matchmaking Que.


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NauFirefox

Senior Member

02-09-2013

Quote:
TaoOfJeetKuneDo:
Yep. 13 LP lost and 30 minute wait now. You're an inch away from losing a paying customer over this BS riot, please use your brains and implement a better system to penalize trolls, not people trying to just play an honest game. Then again they probably don't give a flying feck about solo que's since it's all about the 5's teams anyway. It's just hard to practice to get onto a 5's team when you can't play solo.

There are also a lot of skills you can practice in solo Que that are much harder to practice in team games, or rarer chances to practice. Carrying a team is one of them, as Team ranked your team usually capitalize on each kill, knowing who needs to be targeted. Solo Que you don't have that luxury. Basically it's "Learn to swim in the ocean, so the Olympics pool will become easy."


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Luminar

Member

02-12-2013

Quote:
The issue with that is the only raw data they can gather atm for matchmaking is wins/losses. Maybe honor, and that's really something that would take time to connect to the matchmaking Que


WRONG, please read the league wiki on the matchmaking system, based off of so many things especially ELO which is not wins/losses and please do not try to say it is. You do face who is near your skill level and if you believe you are better than those people you play with/against then prove it.

Quote:
There are also a lot of skills you can practice in solo Que that are much harder to practice in team games, or rarer chances to practice. Carrying a team is one of them, as Team ranked your team usually capitalize on each kill, knowing who needs to be targeted. Solo Que you don't have that luxury. Basically it's "Learn to swim in the ocean, so the Olympics pool will become easy."


Excuse me? What? You should capitalize on each kill in every game and you should be able to carry in premades. Not sure what you are getting at but you can also play unranked premades at any level and learn the game and learn to work as a team from the very beginning of league of legends...

Quote:
A way to cancel a Que as a team vote, placed at the top or bottom of the champion select screen, at anytime you can vote to cancel the Que. Just like a surrender vote, for pre-game, and it doesn't count as a loss. I think it should count as 1/3 a win for the enemy team, and you get returned to Que. The reason for a reward to the enemy team is encouraging people to work together in proper team compositions. No punishment should be given out, when over half the team knows there is a troll in their team.
Issues:
  • The Reward - You cannot reward players for not winning a game. ELO and LP are based on skill and no skill is proven without playing a game. The encouragement for a team to work together is to win you don't need a 1/3 win incentive.
  • The Punishment - Since nobody has actually broken any rules yet (most likely except maybe verbal abuse which can of course be reported) nobody will be punished and the toxic stay in the community.
  • The Time - You may be willing to dodge 10 times to get to a game, but many people have spoken out against this. The amount of dodges were a huge concern for the community and Riot and is a reason they implemented any punishments in the first place, if there is a way to cancel champ select it will just make this even worse.
  • More Trolling - This would obviously lead to some people simply voting to quit queue because they can or because they do not like their team which are the exact reasons that dodgers are punished.
Quote:
LP are supposed to be a ranking of skill. Keeping you matched up with people who are about your skill level and keeping games fun and close.



Exactly, how do you expect to track a person's skill if they only play every 1 in 10 games and that 1 game they do play is with a team they really like and get along well with. That is not a person's true skill and they are punished for playing that way. LP track you against the entire community and the community has to be tracked all the same way, and guess what those trolls are in the community. You have to be tracked in league points for every game. If I win 4 of 5 games without dodging a single game, should I gain the same league points as you if you win 4 out of 5 games when those 5 games were through 50 queues (45 you dodged)? LP are a ranking of skill true, but you don't seem to understand that being able to work with any team and being able to adjust to different roles that your team doesn't have yet are skills that you should really hone.



Quote:
While people will still leave, leaver-buster helps that, people will still feed, we have the tribunal, but these pre-game trolls can't be punished! Unless someone personally writes out what happened before the game in chat and posts it, mid-game. It isn't recorded for the tribunal, and there is no way to report people pre-game.



Whoa, whoa now. You can always contact Riot if you ever have any problems with any players. The fact that they in late season 1/early season 2 added the report button at the end game screen doesn't mean you can't report players. Please see link below for Riot's Player Support form, where they will read whatever complaint you have and will get back to you within a few days.
https://support.leagueoflegends.com/anonymous_requests/new






My Opinion
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NauFirefox, I do understand that the current ranked system is not perfect, but everything I read from you was completely useless and in my opinion you are just very upset that you are in the 1000-1100 ELO range. Learn to adjust to your team, play support more, and play the game. You never know what is going to happen during the game until it actually happens. No game is un-winnable and it may surprise you because so many people are just trolls to you, but these trolls want to win too.


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Ramenhaus

Member

02-14-2013

The problem with this suggestion is that trolls can just insist on their role, knowing that the team will vote to dodge if it's a problem. They just go until it's accepted.

Better to actively punish the troll with a time ban and/or LP punishment. A vote-to-kick option for trolls would be best, and would prevent trolls from moving from queue to queue.


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