Do you think Riven is unviable right now?

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phantom1516

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Senior Member

02-05-2013

no


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Azurlite

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Senior Member

02-05-2013

Good points so far, I will be trying Hydra instead of BT first, will see if it's a better choice.


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Capriciĝus

Junior Member

02-05-2013

Depends on your definition of viable. Tournament wise, Riven was never a popular pick even before the recent nerfs, and with the nerfs, I doubt we'll ever see her picked. In solo queue, pretty much any champion is viable, although I agree that the win rate drop obviously does reflect the fact that it's harder to do well with Riven now.

I don't think that the "Warmog's meta" is the problem. Let's say your opponent has a warmogs + a cloth armor while you have a BT for comparable gold amounts. In my experience you should be able to win exchanges or at least be unpushable out of lane. If anything, sunfire cape is the better item than warmogs against Riven because of its combination of armor, health and sustained dps.

As far as itemization goes, BT is still the best first item. The +25 AD for cheaper cost is significant over Hydra. Of course if, for example, the enemy team is entirely close range champions you could consider Hydra first item but in general you can't go wrong with BT first.

IE is not good because it is an item intended for autoattackers and requires you to build another crit/attack speed item to achieve efficiency with it. Even though Riven is the most autoattack heavy out of the AD casters, as a melee champion, you don't have the time and space to be autoattacking in 5v5 teamfights. If you had IE + PD, which is 1k more expensive than BT + LW, you would do less effective damage in teamfights.


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X74X

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capriciĝus View Post
IE is not good because it is an item intended for autoattackers and requires you to build another crit/attack speed item to achieve efficiency with it. Even though Riven is the most autoattack heavy out of the AD casters, as a melee champion, you don't have the time and space to be autoattacking in 5v5 teamfights. If you had IE + PD, which is 1k more expensive than BT + LW, you would do less effective damage in teamfights.
You're not understanding that while having IE in my build, you still have BT or Hydra+LW. The end build will look something like this.

1. 1 of the 2 boots.
2. Phage to Frozen Mallet or Brutalizer to Black Cleaver.
3. Last Whisper.
4. BT or Hydra.
5. Infinity Edge.
6. BoTRK, Atma's (which will enhance IE), or Maw of Malmortius.

Again this is mostly a matter of playstyle and how aggressive you are. And you're right, you're probably not going to be autoattacking in heavy, closely packed teamfights. However it helps tremendously with more scattered teamfights or if you're facing 2 opponents at once and find all of your abilities on cooldown, or simply can't do enough damage to an enemy with abilities alone.


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Capriciĝus

Junior Member

02-05-2013

As an endgame build, IE is not better than the incredible mercurial scimitar or another BT. But 6-item builds are largely unimportant anyways because most games are decided when you have a 3-4 item midgame core.


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X74X

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capriciĝus View Post
As an endgame build, IE is not better than the incredible mercurial scimitar or another BT. But 6-item builds are largely unimportant anyways because most games are decided when you have a 3-4 item midgame core.
You don't need Merc Scimitar. If you need Magic Resist you'd be getting Maw of Malmortius. It's cheaper and almost equally as effective. I suppose it could work though since it's slightly better, but not in place of IE so much as Maw.

EDIT: Once again, I'm going off of the fact that it'd be good to use against health-heavy opponents. I don't see how Merc Scimitar is more effective against health-heavy opponents since IE has more AD in the first place and also has crit, which can be enhanced with the use of Atma's.

Try it and find out.


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Awfully Beast

Senior Member

02-05-2013

RIVEN IS FINE.... JUST because YOU got COUNTERPICKED doesn't mean she is ****... guess what, if i play a ranked and go top, and they have someone who selects riven as top before i picked; im going to play an hp stacking champ, or trundle....

Its called counterpicking, it wins games, get used to it.


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X74X

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Awfully Beast View Post
RIVEN IS FINE.... JUST because YOU got COUNTERPICKED doesn't mean she is ****... guess what, if i play a ranked and go top, and they have someone who selects riven as top before i picked; im going to play an hp stacking champ, or trundle....

Its called counterpicking, it wins games, get used to it.

Did you even read the first post?


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Capriciĝus

Junior Member

02-05-2013

Maw is also not a good item on Riven because it is more intended for tanky bruisers such as Olaf and Darius who can afford to benefit from the passive. In late game teamfights vs AP heavy teams, whether you have Maw or not is largely irrelevant because if you get CCed, you will be bursted through the Maw shield and die anyway. The cleanse on scimitar is invaluable against say, exhausts, amumu ults, or any AP stun. Plus the movespeed bonus is really nice for sticking power onto squishies and for escaping.

As I have said, crit items are not good because your autoattacks are not what are going to decide teamfights.


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X74X

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capriciĝus View Post
Maw is also not a good item on Riven because it is more intended for tanky bruisers such as Olaf and Darius who can afford to benefit from the passive. In late game teamfights vs AP heavy teams, whether you have Maw or not is largely irrelevant because if you get CCed, you will be bursted through the Maw shield and die anyway. The cleanse on scimitar is invaluable against say, exhausts, amumu ults, or any AP stun. Plus the movespeed bonus is really nice for sticking power onto squishies and for escaping.

As I have said, crit items are not good because your autoattacks are not what are going to decide teamfights.
Okay, I can see your argument for the Scimitar and how it can replace Maw.

But you're not giving me any valid reason as to why IE isn't good in conjunction with these items. I'm pretty sure that in the case of your abilities being down and on CD, it'll possibly decide the outcome of a teamfight if you simply attack the right enemies. You're making no effort to prove me wrong in this opinion, you're just saying that same thing over and over again. Tell me how during a teamfight, if by chance you're in a good position, that ~700 damage autoattacks will not help if your abilities are on cooldown. I think it can only help against tankier enemies that you can't heavily damage by just using your abilities over and over again and need a second source of damage to go with it. I'm not talking about playing Riven like she's Master Yi, I'm talking about using your abilities and then autoattacking until your cooldowns are up so that you can still deal as much damage as possible.

Try it.


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