Taking a look at Seals..

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Mango Fandango

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Master Recruiter

10-31-2010

And I don't mean the blubbery kind.

The Runes
1.41 arm
1.08 hp/lvl
.43 hp/5
5.35 hp
I'm not considering dodge/atk speed because dodge is too luck dependent and I just don't believe in using secondary runes. Even a carry needs HP and getting a very minimal boost to AS versus a much bigger boost elsewhere seems stupid to me. That is my own opinion and I'm very well aware how debatable it is considering seals can give a 7% AS boost.

The Maths
12.69 armor = 9.7% phys atk reduction = -9 DMG if someone were to have 100AD (I hope I did the math on this correctly?)

9.72 HP/Lvl outdoes Flat HP at Level 5, and outdoes the armor outright?

48 Flat HP is only viable til level 4, after that you've sort of gimped yourself?


Now, for the 3.87 HP/5.. I'm not really sure how to compare this or how it fits into gameplay. Basically it takes 15 seconds to outdo the HP/Lvl at level 1.. But then:

Lvl 6: 58.32 HP
Lvl 11: 106.92 HP
Lvl 18: 174.96 HP

Lvl 6: 75 seconds to regen 58.32 HP
Lvl 11: 138 sec to regen 106.92 HP (2 min, 18sec)
Lvl 18: 226 sec to regen 174.96 HP (3min, 46sec)


The Questions/Conclusions
Soo I'm wondering how they stack up. Personally, I like to jungle.. So I can see why the HP/5 could be useful early game to keep myself going, but then again the HP/Lvl is also looks pretty good too.

I really think the HP/Lvl is much more useful for a multitude of champions than the Flat HP since you can Flat HP quints, but I'd just like some feedback on what y'all think. Also, if someone could check my math on the armor and tell me if thats actually correct or not (the 9% damage reduction) that'd be awesome.

I'm sort of leaning towards the HP/Level, just wondering if there are instances where the others are simply better.

TL;DR
Which are better? Why?


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LordSlash

Senior Member

10-31-2010

Depends on the champion.


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Mango Fandango

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10-31-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSlash View Post
Depends on the champion.
Considering you've posted ******edness on the top 4 posts in this category, I thank you for your bump.

For kicks and giggles:

I am talking about general usability. If I had to put specifics:

Jungling champs -> Melee/Range DPS Carries -> Support -> Carries.

Although, I seriously don't see how it makes a difference. Some runes just were not created equal. (Except maybe using dodge if you do nothing but play Jax?).


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LordSlash

Senior Member

10-31-2010

Well, if jungling's the priority, I'd consider armor to be the best in general. For melee and ranged DPS carries, it depends on how squishy they are, but I'd say hp per level in most cases. Same for supports and carries.


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DoctorIdiot

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10-31-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Jinxxx View Post
Considering you've posted ******edness on the top 4 posts in this category, I thank you for your bump.

For kicks and giggles:

I am talking about general usability. If I had to put specifics:

Jungling champs -> Melee/Range DPS Carries -> Support -> Carries.

Although, I seriously don't see how it makes a difference. Some runes just were not created equal. (Except maybe using dodge if you do nothing but play Jax?).
Harsh much?


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Manong Pipit

Senior Member

10-31-2010

Well what's important about your jungle is the early game like level 1-4 so flat will always do better on junglers.


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Mango Fandango

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10-31-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorIdiot View Post
Harsh much?
He had literally spammed just about the entire first page of topics with the same ******ed comment. So I don't consider it especially harsh.

In any case, past level 1 the HP/Level are better than the armor anyway, so doesn't it seem like those would also be better for jungling? Or is my math somehow wrong on how much armor reduces physical attacks (I think 9.7 armor = 9.7% reduction in physical hits). But since minions don't really hit all that hard anyway, HP/Level is probably doing better even at level 1 (unless you were doing drag at level 1.. Which I don't :P).

Oh, I didn't really figure that armor affects every single hit.. Yea nevermind I'm dumb, that does make armor much better then doesn't it? =X


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LordSlash

Senior Member

10-31-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Jinxxx View Post
He had literally spammed just about the entire first page of topics with the same ******ed comment. So I don't consider it especially harsh.
You do realize along with that "******ed comment" I also answered people's questions in the same post? Sorry for trying to help condense the first page and help people.


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Mango Fandango

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10-31-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSlash View Post
You do realize along with that "******ed comment" I also answered people's questions in the same post? Sorry for trying to help condense the first page and help people.
Honestly, what useful input did you add to this thread? None. It was a ******ed comment. Had you expanded to give examples on why it was champion-specific, I'd have understood. You didn't. And on at least 2 other threads you said basically the same thing and moved on.

That isn't helping people. That is just frustrating people who come here looking for math helps because they are English majors and it makes their brain hurt to try and figure this stuff out. Haiii


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Terchio

Senior Member

10-31-2010

Yes, armor does allow more physical hits if obtained than HP does, but a few things to look at:

1. all heroes begin with a base armor, typically starting around 15 and raising 3ish per level. At a decent average of 30 initial armor (since early game is so important), 12.69 armor gives 42.69/142.69 - 30/130 which is 6.84% physical damage reduction. By my maths, 12.69 armor from 0 armor gives 12.69/112.69 - 0/100, or 11.26% physical damage reduction, so that's an important factor.

2. That's only looking at the physical damage, and not at burst damage from nukes, which is helped when you raise your HP.

This being the case, it's typically the best policy to pick either DPS, Caster, or tank, and mix effects from each of the helpful attributes for each. You can only get crit on Tryndamere. However, adding damage, attack speed, or armor penetration helps to improve damage he gets from his improved crit chance, instead of improving crit to improve damage over already fail stats. Though it doesn't look like it, all stats are diminishing to some point. You add 50 damage to a 50 damage champion, it's a 100% increase. You add that to a 200 damage champion, you only get a 25% increase. Mix attributes for the best effect.

Edit: There actually is one stat that is non-diminishing, that being Cooldown Reduction. If you had a nuke that did 1 damage per second and used 10% reduction for that, you'd deal 1 damage per .9 secs, or 1.11 damage per second. If you added 10% more reduction, you'd deal 1 damage per .8 seconds, or 1.25 damage per second. The first is an 11.11% increase in damage, the second a 12.5% increase in damage.


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