Solving the [Solo] Rank Conundrum

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13ann3d4l1f3

Member

02-04-2013

If i dont get fed we lose

gg


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Szerro

Junior Member

02-04-2013

Weather or not we need a new system to help out the elo climb is unknown but a big thing that i see is nearly all wins i see are a complete stomp for one team. theres clearly someone doing something wrong on the other team and for them to loose a lane 0/7 they are in the wrong elo


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Talh

Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by AD Bottom View Post
So the rating system goes towards nice people being higher rated - where's your pro scene? There's no longer any way to accurately pull strong players onto pro teams except by extreme luck in solo queue - and now the game slowly dies off because there's nowhere near as much money in it for players and Riot loses publicity, etc. etc.

The rating system we use measures your ability to win games, period. Throwing in any other metric makes it far, far more difficult to discern who's actually good and who isn't.
You're still implying the fact that that's what the ratings would go to, how often do you actually talk in all chat? For the most part any flaming you do is towards your teammates, who wouldn't be doing the rating for you. See his solution to a problem #2, only able to rate your enemies. So, you could be the biggest jerk in the world to your teammates and the enemy is going to rate you on skill.


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adc

Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by HEX Axis View Post
You're still implying the fact that that's what the ratings would go to, how often do you actually talk in all chat? For the most part any flaming you do is towards your teammates, who wouldn't be doing the rating for you. See his solution to a problem #2, only able to rate your enemies. So, you could be the biggest jerk in the world to your teammates and the enemy is going to rate you on skill.
You'd be surprised how often I see people ***** in all chat. I rarely do it myself, but it happens often enough that I wouldn't be willing to trust the new rating system.


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Talh

Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by AD Bottom View Post
You'd be surprised how often I see people ***** in all chat. I rarely do it myself, but it happens often enough that I wouldn't be willing to trust the new rating system.
Well if what you say is true, then those people would eventually learn that they need to not talk **** in all chat, and the system would balance out again. This system is just to save that 1 or 2 guys on the opposing team who are just a really good player who doesn't deserve the loss they received because of the misfortune of their teammates. You're talking like every nice guy would suddenly achieve platinum tier+ just because he is a nice guy.


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adc

Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by HEX Axis View Post
Well if what you say is true, then those people would eventually learn that they need to not talk **** in all chat, and the system would balance out again. This system is just to save that 1 or 2 guys on the opposing team who are just a really good player who doesn't deserve the loss they received because of the misfortune of their teammates. You're talking like every nice guy would suddenly achieve platinum tier+ just because he is a nice guy.
Not everybody would, but with every system there are outliers. I'd rather that outlier be a person 100 Elo below where they should be for a bit longer because they had a few bad players than that outlier be a guy 100-200+ Elo higher than where they should be because he was exceptionally nice.


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iComatose

Junior Member

02-05-2013

Well I've lost over ''200 elo'' since S3 started.. I might not be a 2k elo player but I'm certainly not a 1.2k which is where I am right now.. The new system is making u pay big time if you get bad lucks. It doesnt seem fair at all..Maybe the old system wasnt the best but atleast it wasnt nearly impossible to go up...
Winning 10lp per wins and losing 20lp whenever I lose sounds incredibly off..


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Talh

Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by AD Bottom View Post
Not everybody would, but with every system there are outliers. I'd rather that outlier be a person 100 Elo below where they should be for a bit longer because they had a few bad players than that outlier be a guy 100-200+ Elo higher than where they should be because he was exceptionally nice.
But that isn't the case, that is actually way off, total made up numbers. I know a guy who carries our group all the time and he's like 20/60 in ranked, but yet he's carrying my ass and i'm a low gold elo player. Also, there's no way an exceptionally nice but bad player is going to be 100-200 elo higher, if he's losing games he will still lose elo unless he's rated higher up, and in that case he loses or gains nothing or gains just a lil bit like 5 lp or something? There isn't a set amount of what they're gaining when they're the best on the losing team.


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Elsabet

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by HEX Axis View Post
But that isn't the case, that is actually way off, total made up numbers. I know a guy who carries our group all the time and he's like 20/60 in ranked, but yet he's carrying my ass and i'm a low gold elo player. Also, there's no way an exceptionally nice but bad player is going to be 100-200 elo higher, if he's losing games he will still lose elo unless he's rated higher up
Thank you for helping clarify.
AD Bottom, please re-read the original post. You're mischaracterizing the system I'm proposing a lot and not taking into account my suggested safeguards. (For example, if a player rates on attitude and others rate on skill, he will potentially lose his right to rate based on his ratings being 'inaccurate' and the tribunal recognizing that.)

In response to your [AD Bottom] comment about too many players thinking KDA and other stats are the only indicator of skill, I'll say that we don't know that for a fact and that that could be tested only with this system. I have more faith in the player base to at least recognize skilled play that typically goes unrewarded by the harsh, static WIN or LOSE method of rating individual play. As pointed out by Hex, the point of the system would be to spare a good player on a bad team the loss of rating (at least some of it), and perhaps to curb the rating gain of a clearly bad player on the winning team.

Ideally these player rated point influences would decrease at higher ratings where good players are less likely to lose games simply due to absent or skill-less teammates.


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CrucialOT

Member

02-06-2013

I like and dislike this idea, instead, might i suggest a "mvp" option for each team voted by the opposing team. When a team loses, they tend to blame each other and are very unlikely to give a honest vote on their own team, however, they will usually admit to who was the best player on the other team "gg garen carried" ect. So at the end allow players to choose an mvp on the other team, much like the honor system, this would only be done voluntarily. Then work in mvp votes into the MMR system as a factor for your rating.