Do you think Ashe should be give a (small) rework?

No. Absolutely not. She's the Marry Poppins of LoL: Practically perfect in every way. 41 12.54%
I'm on the fence: Ashe is the most awesome but I canít help thinking she could be better... 40 12.23%
Yes. But so small a change that most people wont even notice unless you mention it. 103 31.50%
To heck with SMALL! She's been so overlooked for so long it's like she's been FROZEN... in TIME! 143 43.73%
Voters: 327. You may not vote on this poll

Ashe really does need a (small) rework

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Thubgar

Senior Member

02-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yhufir View Post
Ya, absolutely. And thank you.

The numbers, as those of you who voted can see, is about 70% say "Definitely needs a rework in some capacity" with 8% saying that, while they are on the fence, they do agree something could be done to make her better (which is the case with all champions). An even 20% saying Ashe is fine how she is.

Obviously the people who read and respond in these forums, on this topic, on this thread, are a small subset of the community at large. However, I don't think that mean's we're not a good representation of the total population of LoL players (we're just a little more... involved). That being said, there has to be a way to petition Riot to actually make a change that roughly 75% of people agree is a necessity for her to stay relevant.

But how...?
a huge number of people that disagree wouldnt even bother with this thread.
a huge part of the community doesn't frequent the forums.
of the ones that DO, only a small % are in the champion balance forums.

this is in no way reflective of the community as a whole.


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alfavhunter

Senior Member

02-07-2013

fixing ashe

passive converted to 5 extra gold per kill (no rank ups) [its more than TF's but its only for her]

E remade

hawk shot

ashe sends out her hawk to a targeted location (range greatly reduced, probably about the range of nid spear max range) and it will stay there for 3/4/5/6/7 seconds granting a small radius of vision (think 2.5 the vision range of teemo shrooms) and while ashe moves directly toward her hawk she has 40% movement speed increase and ignores unit collision, if she runs over her hawk she picks it up ending this effect, but reducing the CD by 20/25/30/35/40 seconds (CD is still 60 seconds at all ranks, effected by CDR and the CD starts when thee hawk is picked up or the effect ends)

ashe's hawk has ward HP (3/4/5/6/7 hits, based on level) and does not go invisible, killing it will prevent the CDR effect, remove sight, and cause the passive effect to not be available till the CD of the ability itself is done

passive E effect {not available while ashe's hawk is separated from her or dead}

ashe's hawk helps her find weaknesses in her opponents armor, giving her 2/4/6/8/10 armor penetration and when she critically hits the target her armor penetration bonus is doubled for the next attack



ashe should not have a dash like others because of her constant slow from her Q and W, but with this move she has better escape and chase, while E can still partially be used to check brush, with a risk reward factor of losing the passive / saving your life, and keeps her relatively balanced with still enforcing her designed to crit due to being able to double the armor pen bonus with crits


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Sogreth

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Senior Member

02-07-2013

She is perfectly fine as she is.

The ONLY thing she needs is a change on her passive. He doesn't have the damage like other carries because of how much CC and utility she brings to the team. When you pick her you sacrifice some late game damage for all that CC.

Her passive though, does need some work.


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Sogreth

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Senior Member

02-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by alfavhunter View Post
fixing ashe

passive converted to 5 extra gold per kill (no rank ups) [its more than TF's but its only for her]

E remade

hawk shot

ashe sends out her hawk to a targeted location (range greatly reduced, probably about the range of nid spear max range) and it will stay there for 3/4/5/6/7 seconds granting a small radius of vision (think 2.5 the vision range of teemo shrooms) and while ashe moves directly toward her hawk she has 40% movement speed increase and ignores unit collision, if she runs over her hawk she picks it up ending this effect, but reducing the CD by 20/25/30/35/40 seconds (CD is still 60 seconds at all ranks, effected by CDR and the CD starts when thee hawk is picked up or the effect ends)

ashe's hawk has ward HP (3/4/5/6/7 hits, based on level) and does not go invisible, killing it will prevent the CDR effect, remove sight, and cause the passive effect to not be available till the CD of the ability itself is done

passive E effect {not available while ashe's hawk is separated from her or dead}

ashe's hawk helps her find weaknesses in her opponents armor, giving her 2/4/6/8/10 armor penetration and when she critically hits the target her armor penetration bonus is doubled for the next attack



ashe should not have a dash like others because of her constant slow from her Q and W, but with this move she has better escape and chase, while E can still partially be used to check brush, with a risk reward factor of losing the passive / saving your life, and keeps her relatively balanced with still enforcing her designed to crit due to being able to double the armor pen bonus with crits
o_O you just made Hawkshot super OP.


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GlyphTsen

Senior Member

02-07-2013

First of all, please stop confusing "rework" with "buff." If she is actually underpowered, it doesn't mean she needs new mechanics in and of itself.

There are no actual problems with her mechanics that I can see, so again if she is "not viable" (which I currently doubt) it seems far more likely that she could just use some slight buffs. Faster accumulation on Passive, better base stats, or whatever it is that would make her more attractive to players.

Second of all, biased poll is biased.


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Yhufir

Senior Member

02-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thubgar View Post
a huge number of people that disagree wouldnt even bother with this thread.
a huge part of the community doesn't frequent the forums.
of the ones that DO, only a small % are in the champion balance forums.

this is in no way reflective of the community as a whole.
If you'll read the quote of mine you pointed out, you'll see I mentioned we are a small subset of the community. But, to start with, that doesnt mean we're not representative. Also, of the people that DO frequent the forums, and DO frequent the champion balance section, we are likely representative. So in short, this small population could easily be thought of as representing the LoL community that cares enough about champion balance to get involved. For those people that dont care enough ... well "The squeeky wheel gets the grease."


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Yhufir

Senior Member

02-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlyphTsen View Post
First of all, please stop confusing "rework" with "buff." If she is actually underpowered, it doesn't mean she needs new mechanics in and of itself.

There are no actual problems with her mechanics that I can see, so again if she is "not viable" (which I currently doubt) it seems far more likely that she could just use some slight buffs. Faster accumulation on Passive, better base stats, or whatever it is that would make her more attractive to players.

Second of all, biased poll is biased.
I like your post, thanks. I don't know who you're addressing at the beginning of your post, because I certainly never claimed to want a buff. And I agree whole-heartedly. A lot of people come into these posts and start out "NO WAY! DONT CHANGE ANYTHING! SHE"S FINE" and then the last sentence or 2 say something like, "Besides her passive, which is utterly useless, she's perfect. Maybe change that passive."

It's getting frustrating to the point of distraction for me because THAT"S EXACTLY WHAT I"M ARGUING FOR. A simple balance change, not a buff, not anything anyone would think was game-changing. Just balancing out her innate passive, or swapping it with her E and tweaking the scaling or something. Yet for some reason, half the people that start arguing have this idea that I want her Q to go Mana-less, her W to have 0 CD, and her Ult to be a homing missile. "That's ridiculous! Why mess with the MOST VIABLE ADC IN THE GAME?! She's practically all anyone ever uses, after all... And her passive lacks usability. Maybe change that."

And yes, the poll was definitely biased, in a way. I did give people the option of saying "No. Ashe should not be changed" and "Yes. Ashe does need to be changed." What I didnt include (or made slightly veiled) was the "No. Ashe doesnt need a change, except her passive." Which would have been ****ing dumb.


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Yhufir

Senior Member

02-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sogreth View Post
She is perfectly fine as she is.
...
Her passive though, does need some work.
I rest my case.


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Thubgar

Senior Member

02-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yhufir View Post
If you'll read the quote of mine you pointed out, you'll see I mentioned we are a small subset of the community. But, to start with, that doesnt mean we're not representative. Also, of the people that DO frequent the forums, and DO frequent the champion balance section, we are likely representative. So in short, this small population could easily be thought of as representing the LoL community that cares enough about champion balance to get involved. For those people that dont care enough ... well "The squeeky wheel gets the grease."
as i pointed out, your thread has already pre-screened many would-be dissenters. you also have an over-inflated sense of importance. balance is a subject of fact, not opinion. arguments on forums (or not) are irrelevant.

i would also point out that this is the same part of the forum that complains about the likes of trynd, yi, and darius almost constantly. if the net opinion of this area represents anything, it's idiots. and frankly i dont think the lol community at large is.


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Yhufir

Senior Member

02-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thubgar View Post
as i pointed out, your thread has already pre-screened many would-be dissenters. you also have an over-inflated sense of importance. balance is a subject of fact, not opinion. arguments on forums (or not) are irrelevant.

i would also point out that this is the same part of the forum that complains about the likes of trynd, yi, and darius almost constantly. if the net opinion of this area represents anything, it's idiots. and frankly i dont think the lol community at large is.
Fantastic. I like dealing with subjects of fact. What facts would you like to discuss, regarding Ashe's kit balance? I disagree, what the lol community argues for or against in the forums is relevant to how we view the playability or "usability" of champions we like. It's true, not all opinions are not equal. But again, people with something to say are more likely to be heard.