Dodging penalty to League points is wrong (IMO)

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lFalse Kingl

Member

02-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcticfury View Post
His ELO is the same as yours, so he is able to make that ELO while countering himself. It appears he has a lot of potential once he learns the counters.

The problem is the guy who dodges until he gets his perfect game and then complains about the people at his rating that aren't as good as him when they are rated the same. That baddie, noob, troll, or whatever you want to call him, is able to play at your level (yes, countering himself, playing double mid, etc.) he can maintain your ELO. Why not focus on making yourself better rather than complain about someone at your level?

And if you are dodging to get the right games, think how much lower your TRUE ELO is compared to theirs? You are winning more than you should and dodging your losses and these "trolls" are playing every game they can and keeping up with you.

I reiterate, you'd be better off playing with them and learning how to win and carry rather than complain about it always being someone else's fault for your poor skill level. LTP
You don't seem to have an overall understanding of how you are rated and matched. What you're saying, someone who can go 0-30-0 deaths under an hour plays the same way as someone who goes 30-0-0.

Do you know nothing separates the one who goes 30-0 with the ones who feed. Why? Because it doesn't matter how well you do in game. It is a team game and you are judge by how well your team does and not by how good you do. So you can expect to be stuck with that low elo player NOT BECAUSE YOU ARE BAD BUT BECAUSE HE DRAGS YOU DOWN TO HIS LEVEL. Having a rating that falls under winning creates this problem. Why I am truly on elo hell? I never used the dodge function until I went on the forums and found out that it was one of the solutions and it indeed worked well.

Another thing is that, you cannot win a game alone.You need at least a decent team. You actually have a higher chance of winning by yourself than being matched with a player that will feed the enemy.

In short, your elo will be the same as the people you are matched with. So if you are matched with bad people, you will have their rating added to yours and now you can't manually balance your team.


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TaoOfJeetKuneDo

Junior Member

02-07-2013

Look, dodging because your team is less than perfect is one thing, but what about when you get a Tryndamere with clarity and ghost telling you he's going to "jungle in their base" and "attack towers lvl 1". Guaranteed loss because some troll ******* wants to mess with people. How is that a bad reason to dodge?

We just want a fair game like everyone else and often times in ELO hell people will rage and troll pick because they didn't get what they wanted, so we're supposed to sit through a half hour game and lose 20 LP because of them?


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Arcticfury

Senior Member

02-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by lFalse Kingl View Post
You don't seem to have an overall understanding of how you are rated and matched. What you're saying, someone who can go 0-30-0 deaths under an hour plays the same way as someone who goes 30-0-0.

Do you know nothing separates the one who goes 30-0 with the ones who feed. Why? Because it doesn't matter how well you do in game. It is a team game and you are judge by how well your team does and not by how good you do. So you can expect to be stuck with that low elo player NOT BECAUSE YOU ARE BAD BUT BECAUSE HE DRAGS YOU DOWN TO HIS LEVEL. Having a rating that falls under winning creates this problem. Why I am truly on elo hell? I never used the dodge function until I went on the forums and found out that it was one of the solutions and it indeed worked well.

Another thing is that, you cannot win a game alone.You need at least a decent team. You actually have a higher chance of winning by yourself than being matched with a player that will feed the enemy.

In short, your elo will be the same as the people you are matched with. So if you are matched with bad people, you will have their rating added to yours and now you can't manually balance your team.
Anyone that goes 30-0-0 will win 99% of their games, so that means nothing. A lot of my support wins I have 0 kills and a few deaths but a ton of assists. While I do agree your K/D is not the answer, it is a factor. So is your skill is probably the largest factor in your ELO.

Secondly, let's pretend/agree you are above average skill for your ELO but are under ranked for some bad luck with bad teams, a losing streak, bad random lag spike, or a combination of things outside of your control. Being under ranked is the only way your gripe has any merit, so I'll completely agree on this.

So let's say your ELO is 1000 but your skill is 1200 (I didn't look you up, just picked a 200 ELO difference). The game balances the two teams to some degree, putting the lower net ELO on Blue side and the higher on Purple. I'm not going to post links to the many threads where Riot has explicitly said this is the case because anyone that has an opinion worth mentioning (which I think yours does) has surely kept up on the forums.

Since I've never seen any posts stating that players are anything other than randomly placed together with the exception of matching similar wins/ELO and then balancing, we will assume your placement is 100% random outside of those 3 things. So that means your are on average matched with 4 people that are most likely below your true ELO/Skill and against 5 people the same. You are 20% of the outcome on your team (1/5) if we assume that you are all equally skilled, but since we are assuming that you're above average you are likely above the 20%, likewise, if there is a troll he is also likely more than 20% of the outcome. Here's where a little stats comes in hand, the troll has a 55.5% chance to be on the other team and 44.5% to be on your team (9 slots left after you are on a team and 4/9 are on your team).

So if you play enough games the trolls will be on the other team more than yours and you should slowly begin to rise to your true ELO. This would be true for both you and me except for 3 things.

1. The new division ladder requires that you play a series of 3 out of 5 games to move up, and scales your wins down hard before you're even allowed to hit that point but doesn't scale your losses.
2. You probably don't have enough time to play the 200-500 games needed to ensure that the trolls are on the other team much more than your team, I know I don't.
3. In order for a system based on ELO to work your must require that no outside elements are in place. Basically a controlled environment. Trolls will always exist, and narrow minded people will always see the 4 losses to trolls/afkers before they admit the 5 wins to them being on the other team. We can't remove them completely. But we can eliminate the other large factor to this and that's to require every match to be played. If you dodge you are removing the random placement and though you think you just dodged a sure loss, you are suffering a sure win with the enemy dodges. This does nothing for the system. Trolls aren't required to play and lose, they can't get reported in the Tribunal, you don't win as much as you lose from Dodging so it is really doing nothing for you if you think outside the one time you dodge and look at the times someone else did.

So Riot will likely fix problem 1. I'm really hoping so since they have completely removed the weighted ELO change and made losses hurt more than wins can help. But this is only 5% of the problem and only af

Problem 2 is something only you can change and probably won't/can't so it's just something we have to live with.

Problem 3 is the one we can change the most. This is the one I really think we need to focus on. And the reason I post so much in these dodge penalty QQ threads. These threads are like someone complaining their brakes squeak and suggest the answer is to remove the breaks. That may make them happy for a while, but it won't for long. The answer is to remove dodging. Yes I know you are upset I just mentioned that but please don't dismiss it. The answer is much more complex, removing the ability to dodge won't be a good fix. The answer is to remove the desire to dodge. Riot has provided maybe 1/3 of this answer by imposing the penalties and wait times. But the largest 2/3 is to address the reasons people dodge. Trolls, Skipped Bans, Arguing in pregame chat, threatening to troll, etc. Riot NEEDS to address this more than any amount of effort in balancing or bug corrections. We must have a way of removing the trolls from LoL, not just the match, but the match too. We could implement a kick, we need to implement a pregame tribunal system, and post game as well, and possibly a few other things, such as Riot stating that pick order trumps call order in the code and stating that they will not support tribunal reports against breaking the "META".

See the answer is to make every match happen 100% of the time, otherwise ELO means absolutely nothing. Just punishing people who want to win and skip games isn't the answer, though dodging does need a penalty. It's removing the desire to dodge, make the troll hate to get reported. Remove the trolls quickly and effectively. Stiffen the penalty for leaving a ranked game (going afk or logging out). Having to put up with a troll 1 in 25 games is far better than the 1 in 4 games now. And making people play even if they think they have a troll, surely you could handle 1 in 25 and would gladly do it if that's all there was.

Every QQ about the dodge penalty is just some near sited post that means nothing. Why they are dodging is the heart of the problem. We need Riot to address the problem and quit focusing on the symptoms.

And these symptom posts need to stop. Focus on the problem and we can agree.


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Grim00Reapertm

Junior Member

04-24-2013

hell no i'm sick of suck players bad teams bad behavior and us good players get punished frankly sick of riot games **** with there systems


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Insanity601

Senior Member

04-25-2013

ArticFury Going Ham.

Dodge isn't a feature, it's something Riot is against which is why there is a penalty. Some of you guys don't understand how matchmaking works. You are with those players because you are one of those players.

If you see that there is clearly a troll, then dodge the game if you must. Mathematically if your LP Loss for dodging is < your LP loss for loosing a game then sure dodge, no one is going to stop you. If that isn't the case then yes play your game. The only time your LP loss doesn't go in your favor to dodge over play the game is if you dodge about 3 games in a row in which case you are just trying to find a perfect team which isn't right.

This system works and the faster you realize that then the faster you get out of that area 0_0


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