Bronze, is Broken

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troplop

Junior Member

02-03-2013

to be honest, you just need to get better. bronze division is broken in the fact that it is so absurdly easy. I am only in silver II, and i have duo queued twice with my friend who is bronze V, resulting in an entire team of bronze division players. one game two people went afk, and we won 3v5 because our opponents were so insanely bad... if you can't carry yourself out of bronze division then you are not ready for silver..

if you are better than the players at your ELO, then you should be able to beat them with handicaps, and thus will win a proportion of games in which someone feeds, afks, or whatever.. additionally you should win ALL games where this doesn't happen; at that ELO you will also be handed games in which the enemy team afks. all of these things combined make climbing out of bronze very easy, if you are truly a better player


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Arodard

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Junior Member

02-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by hampsterblade View Post
Trolls can really ruin things and they are hard to deal with and they can push you down really far. I was at 400 elo last season, but have started this season 20/14 and climbed up to about 1200 elo or currently the top of Bronze IV and climbing. Here are a few pointers.

1) The game mechanic starts in champion select. Work hard to communicate. Discuss game strategy and counters early on. In the lower elo everyone is going to call their roles and be concrete on them, sorry, not much you can do. If people are fighting over a role you may as well dodge, one of them is probably going to troll or be bad at the role they get stuck with, it's not going to end well. I would also dodge for announced trolls or people refusing to stick to the meta, there's no LP penalty for dodging, so if the conditions are overwhelmingly unfavorable, why chance it. While you're waiting for the 15 minute timer, play an aram.

2) The next thing to question is your actual skills as a support. Playing support is a great way to climb, but I found when I was stuck down there I wasn't actually supporting well. My ward placement wasn't the greatest and my late game was pretty bad. It's important to know the supports that best synergize with different carries, and which counter other carries and supports. Watch some pro streams, and learn from their supports and other roles.

3) Be skilled in every role and know at least 2-3 champions in each role. If you're not good with a role, don't play ranked until you have almost mastered it.

4) Lastly, have fun, but remember to take it seriously in ranked. Don't be a troll yourself, and don't get angry. Encourage your team to communicate, have good map awareness, if you need to, call others mias. This heightened awareness can help your unskilled teams greatly.

5) Master a jungle. The jungler can influence a game far more than any other role especially early on. Nobody ever calls jungle and if you get good, it's the easiest way to climb up.

6) Duo queue, and if you can find people well above your rank to queue with. Playing higher tier games offer more LP and climb faster, but your friends may not like it as their losses will be greater and their wins not as significant.

7) If you're in too deep and there's nothing you can do, just don't play ranked. I know it sucks, but I had to wait for the ELO reset to escape. Once a reset occurs make sure to wait a few weeks to jump in so most of the trolls are back where they should be.

tl;dr: evaluate your own skills and queue with friends. You want to climb the ladders, you have to have the highest possible influence and dodge the trolls.


This has always been like this and will not change, The system is made this way so people stay where they should be. If a person is losing most of their games they need to move down, if they are winning a lot they should move up. Unfortunately it negatively effects lower ranked players as most of the low ranked people are there due to being trolls, leavers, or not communicated. It really hurts people who got there because of other trolls, and a few initial mistakes. They cannot risk breaking the system in the high ranks because a few people are trapped in Bronze V hell. It's just how it is.
I couldn't say it better


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SandyZor

Member

02-04-2013

the only problem i have with his new system is that all the trolls will always been in whatever tier it is in. if you try to get better, you will just keep meeting these people over and over again. and the problem is that we cant do nothing about it.

based on your description, bronze is no different than silver. gg


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Le MowMow

Member

02-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikailMikail View Post
I find the new Patch 3.01 is not very nice (rather... horrible) for the Ranked Game.

For a MAJOR REASON = POINT DEDUCTION FOR LOSSING

Firstly the main aim for the game is to make people play more not less.
With the point system in ranked that it currently using it reduces points for lossing. Now if you think in a Neutral state of mind that all players are not going to work together as a team originally. Then if they lose the game because of a team mate and you penalize them even more for playing a game to their best but because of others they get deducted also?? That is like adding salt to the wound.
Players will be discouraged.

Now if you say it helps prevent all players from advancing too fast then the point system in lossing should not be so drastic that it puts players off.

Instead they could have done some thing like this:
If you win a game in rank : 15 points
If you lose a game in rank 5 points deduction

With this set up you encourage players to play more and those who lost a game because of not their fault or other players not as skilled as they are.

I hope LOL staff will take this into consideration. I am not playing rank game any more until this has been amanded
I can understand the frustration from losing because of a fed lane from a single player, trolls, afker's and being penalized for it but why would anyone assume that no one would work as a team in a game that was built around team play? The system is not built around individual achievements but rather the team's ability to work towards a goal and rewards/advances them accordingly, the same goes with penalizing. Think of it that way, you are NOT the only one who gets penalized, the entire team got penalized for losing.

Also, you may be playing to the best of your ability and that's admirable but you shouldn't take a loss as a slap on the wrist and instead take it as motivation to try and do better next time. That's how I got better in Starcraft 2. Every loss I had, I'd watch my replay and find something that I had done terribly wrong *facepalmed* and made sure I corrected that mistake next time. Eventually, I had no problem climbing the ladder.

Also, the idea of changing the point system as you suggested would be a horrible idea. Basically, you'd be suggesting that you could win 25% of the time, lose 75%(need 3 losses to catch up to 1 win) and stay exactly where you are right now. There's nearly no risk in losing which means no motivation to try and do better. People who would break even 50-50 would suddenly be thrown in brackets that they have no business being in.


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Clowns Suck

Member

02-04-2013

the added loss of points for dodging is making the bronze hell even worse. Won a game and got 4 points followed by a loss of 16. Then had some moron ban only ADCs and pick malph with smite and say he was jungling. Halfway through champ select he says "NVM I troll top jajajajajajjaja" and I dodged instead of autolosing due to a troll. Lost another I think 4 points. End of the day 1 win 1 loss 1 dodge and I'm minus 16 points. That is utter and complete BS. Bring back the long dodge timers or something but don't penalize me for dodging a troll on top of the stupidly high loss penalties.


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Sexelady

Member

02-04-2013

1. Play a carry
2. You gotta take control and lead your team, tell them when to take objectives, when to push etc.
3. Try duo Q with a partner, the odds of getting a troll out of 3 randoms is less than the odds of getting a troll our of 4 randoms.
4. and the best advice, if you have 2-3 people that all want to ADC on a team, dodge or AFK pick and hope someone does. Odds are they all suck and the ones who dont get to ADC will suck even more since they dont know any other roles.

thats the best advice I can give,
personally dug out of 1100 --> Silver II now


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omegam0

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Senior Member

02-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by hampsterblade View Post
1) The game mechanic starts in champion select. Work hard to communicate. Discuss game strategy and counters early on. In the lower elo everyone is going to call their roles and be concrete on them, sorry, not much you can do. If people are fighting over a role you may as well dodge, one of them is probably going to troll or be bad at the role they get stuck with, it's not going to end well. I would also dodge for announced trolls or people refusing to stick to the meta, there's no LP penalty for dodging, so if the conditions are overwhelmingly unfavorable, why chance it. While you're waiting for the 15 minute timer, play an aram.
.
Actually you do lose LP for dodging. Honestly though I never had it be a ton of LP, and I quickly recovered the lost LP from dodging. If you dodge smart you never really have to worry about that LP loss. I would say dodge if you see a ton of troll bans from your team if your team is not going to have first pick. I have seen that a ton and would wait to dodge til I saw what was chosen. everytime, my team that did that would troll pick. Just dodge if you get that, you may lose LP, but you will make it up with your wins.


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Jneu333

Member

02-04-2013

Play support, get your adc fed as hell and ward the whole map constantly


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OriginalJack

Senior Member

02-04-2013

Not trying to be a jerk but let me break down a few of your recent losses, I'm sure there's more to the story in each game but here's my thoughts at a quick glance...

Shen 4/5/15
Not bad, would expect some more... supporty items like aegis or something but w/e.

Alistar 1/11/10
Not a great score. Giving up 11 kill for only 10 assists is pretty bad and you were hurting more than helping. Also what's up with the early b.veil, that seems like an odd choice. Just looking at the numbers I think you deserved to lose this one.

Alistar 2/4/14
Not bad numbers but what's up with the early Ohmwrecker? It seems like an odd choice over an aegis or several other more common support items. Are you really tower diving that often? It's kind of a lot of money for a supprt to spend on something like that.

Alistar 0/10/9
Again some bad numbers and an early Ohmwrecker... not super shocked this was a loss.

Nunu 1/10/13
More bad numbers and early b.veil makes a littlre more sense here but still not great

Nami 1/8/6
bad numbers, rushing b veil again... starting to see a pattern here?

Galio 1/6/8
bad numbers.... you rushed GA in this game that seems really strange seeing as how you were likely not level 18 at this point.

Sona 3/8/13 - win
This looks like a more standard supprt build. Assists are still a little low but as you can see it was good enough.


Basically I'm seeing a pattern of bad KDAs and questionable support items. I didn't see a single aegis, reverie, twin shadows or shard of ice. (sona game is an exception) While the bad KDAs are likely not 100% your fault at some point you have to think a little more about your engages because it's a consistant issue.

Also your runes are all over the place. For support you want:

Blue scaleing or flat MR
yellow armor or gp
reds armor, ad or ap
quints gp

Your mastery page is bad too 5/3/22, what is that? Your tank page is a little better but I would really think about redoing those.

Please don't take this the wrong way but you are trying to blame Riot's ranked system when a lot of the problem is with your play. In my opinion you belong in bronze league, maybe not as low as you are but not far off.

edit:
oh one more thing I notice that in your OP you said that you often get off to a good start. It looks like your taking that inital boost in gold and wasting it on bad items. Ohmwrecker - useless unless you're fighting under a tower. B veil - you are the support and you're telling me you're being focused first?


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K1nGJ4m3S

Member

02-04-2013

if you want to get out of bronze you have to carry yourself out. PUT THE TEAM ON YOUR BACK!! its hard to do that as support