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@morello: blitzcrank...please

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daves3hd

Senior Member

02-04-2013

nerf his hook range by 65 and maybe we can talk about the other buffs.


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SeCKS Egai

Senior Member

02-04-2013

Quote:
Morello:
I need to understand something.

One of the number one bans is...weaker...?


I can't speak for the numbers as I wasn't a regular blitz player, but I never found hm significantly OP. He's reached ban status because a good blitz can completely dominate a lane if they can consistently land the rocket grab.

No other champion has the ability to initiate on a target and drag them into range in an instant. For example, Singed has to be in melee range to flip someone to his allies. Alistar has to be behind his target to knock them to teammates. Blitz can pull an enemy into range of his allies from a relatively safe distance in comparison.

Sure, his mana barrier can make him a pain to kill, but that's only significant during the laning phase really, as it has little impact on why he's got such a lane presence.

If a blitz misses a few rocket grabs, he loses most of his presence. Everything revolves around him landing that q. Rocket grab is why blitz still makes ban lists, adjusting other numbers doesn't play a huge factor, unless you want to deny him the ability to use the rest of his kit.


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DEagleEye

Senior Member

02-04-2013

Quote:
Niqhtmare x:
i am extremely fine with this too

his hook used to do no damage, and people were maxing e first on blitzcrank for the cd reduction
(im still oldschool, so i still max e)

i completely forgot that riot added more base damage and buffed the ap ratio on hook until now


I actually have to agree with your post, and this.

Maxing E first is baws, both for support and Top lane Bruiser/tank Blitz.
Q without damage is more than acceptable for its power. Its damage is also is a bit meh. heres a few idea.

-Bring his base mana back up....
-Make mana shield scaling (at lvl 6/12/18 or something, more % of your mana is used for the shield) This allows you to get early shield levels under control, but let it scale up throughout the game.
-Leave W the same
- Make E damage scaling (rather than 200% ad, a mixed damage ability. It rank 1 100% of AD 60% of AP. It does mixed damage (that is, if u have 100 ap and 100 ad, it does 60 magic damage and 100 physical damage) And each rank, the ratio is increased. So
Rank 1 110% AD 60% AP
Rank 2 120% AD 70% AP
Rank 3 130% AD 80% AP
Rank 4 140% AD 90% AP
Rank 5 150% AD 100% AP

This would mean at 300 AD and 100 AP, and rank 5 E, your E would do 450 physical damage +100 magic damage.=550 damage. Where currently with 300 AD it would do 600 damage. It removes damage, but adds options. Overall i see it as a bonus. (this is true for all mixes of AP and AD, but then your sacrifising mana and/or tankyness)

- Make R Silence Slightly Longer

- Further, as a point of added gameplay. Make it that activating E before casting Q cause Q to knock up any target hit, rather than draging them in (as well as applying E damage)
This would prevent bot lane Blitz from preparing E before casting Q to get an instant knckup after his target has been dragged in. Thus giving the target a chance to escape before E can be activated and applies to the SECOND auto-attack after Q (rather than the first as it is currently)
This adds gameplay to Blitz, allowing him to knck-up targets over walls if his teammates are chasing, while also applying counter-play by allowing for a time to escape after a succesful grab.


Overall, I expect these proposed changes to.

- Make his early tankyness (due to mana sheild) less.

- Increase viability for all of Blitz current builds (allowing E to scale even when full AP blitz, as well as allowing for a hybrid blitz similar to a jax)

- Increase the effect of his R. Currently, the silence is very underwhelming at half second, when Cho'Gaths silence is at 1.5 seconds at rank 1 (and 2.5 rank 5). This would allow his ult to be used for significant counter-play, such as preventing ults such as Tryndameres or Fiora's, etc.

- Reduce (actually, remove) the power of Blitz Q/E combo, so that escapes are still possible after a succeful grab, but also add new gameplay to Blitz to allow him to make long-range knock-ups. However at much increased cost (having both Q and E in cooldown, and using the mana of both abilities)

This is all on-top of removing the damage from Q (numbers for E can be tweaked, however going any lower would leave him quite weak damage wise)


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Vejoviis

Member

02-04-2013

Quote:
Morello:
I need to understand something.

One of the number one bans is...weaker...?


This is my two cents. I am not a Blitzcrank player.

I ban Blitz every game in solo queue, not because I think he is op, but because he feels like a pick that will affect the outcome in a way that is outside of my control. I don't trust 1. my botlane to play against Blitz properly 2. people on my team to always be aware of hook pressure lategame and 3. anyone on my team to play blitz, because this happens a lot "just because he is open" and then my teamate can't land a hook to save their loss.

That being said I don't think Blitzcrank is op and I never ban him when I am with a friend doing duo queue botlane, and I don't ever pick him. I am not a botlane expert, but it seems to me that Blitzcrank lanes lose to other "tanky" (if you can call Blitz that) supports - like Alistar, Leona, (even Nautilus!?) and Taric. Maybe this is because I run cheesy runes and masteries or the Blitzcranks I play against are bad.

I am just trying to suggest an alternative (which in my case is accurate) as to why people will ban Blitzcrank even though they don't think he is op. It is really frustrating to lose a game because your adc walks to close to the wrong wall lategame and I would rather deal with something that feels a little overpowered than that. As a jungler it is easier to mitigate "op" solo laners than it is botlane snowballing, especially with Blitz since the lane has good potential to get a pick on your adc (because if they couldn't dodge a hook then why should they be able to dodge one now) when you are ganking for them. Another thing is that a lot of bans don't seem "must ban" anymore. The game feels much more balanced than it did one year ago.


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Yma Sumac

Member

02-04-2013

you know morello you could easily supplement meta shift balance power creep problems with simple reverting of nerfs. Nerfs made in the context of season 2 shouldn't be in season 3

Shyvanna's R values and Rammus' W values were nerfed in the context of season 2 when they were powerful. Now with penetration changes those are useless. Just revert those nerfs

Also what is GP supposed to do against ninja tabi and league of warmogs?

Idk why you guys are so brainless and slow to notice these

There is little math involved, it's mostly common sense.. I find it funny that you need to take months of research to do something as simple as removing free week heroes from ranked when anyone who played the game saw how much trouble it caused, or taking nearly an entire year to copypasta Starcraft 2's Ladder system albeit poorly. I am still waiting for newly released heroes to be removed from ranked selection.


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VanceStubbs

Senior Member

02-04-2013

Taking bets how long until Tresh is going to be banned every game...


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Rockaqt

Senior Member

02-04-2013

Quote:
morello:

he's weaker than he used to be is obviously true. I just don't know if someone with that core skillset has the ability to be weak (maybe out-of-flavor?) unless we absolutely gutted him - which i don't see a trend of overall.


you gutted eve. Why not gut him?


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Vejoviis

Member

02-04-2013

Quote:
Rockaqt:
you gutted eve. Why not gut him?


One of the top guides refered to Eve as "freelo" and explained how he was stuck at 1700~ but was able to climb 1k (to 2700!) by just playing Eve because she was so blatantly op. It was updated 13 days ago and these comments regarding her strength are still there, feel free to check out the guide http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=36491-ilovllamas12-evelynn-build-guide.


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IS1499b7451e02f41f2e03d

Senior Member

02-04-2013

Quote:
DEagleEye:
-Leave W the same


No. Just no. Crazy IMS steroid with no downsides and CDRed nearly no downtime.
And that's not even factoring in the strong IAS it provides too.


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DrHextechDude

Senior Member

02-04-2013

What i believe is that Blitzcrank,just like Leona,aren't designed as supports.
At least the way i see Blitzcrank is like a tanky dps