Level 20 Challenge

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Fudouri

Senior Member

02-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IIWaLsHII View Post
I'd like to know how this is contrary to just allowing those players to stay banned, and then remake an account only to verbally berate real new-comers. Even a player who has reformed would be very sour, wouldn't you agree? Thus, instead of avoiding that ONE PERSON who might have reformed, those level 1's will have to deal with that person who is now scornfully abusing his team. Logically speaking, the level 20 challenge is more than justified.

Regardless, I don't understand the downvotes. I haven't said anything rude or otherwise. Hell, I didn't even earn the permanent ban, but I am accepting my failure to keep my account confidential. I would just like to discuss Riot Policy without blind/bitter-partisanship.
Its an interesting argument.

There's two sides to it really.

On Riot's side, they believe the 5 previous warnings and bannings were enough chances. If a person believes there is yet another chance after a permaban, then more people would actually try and do it.

So (using completely made up stats), if by allowing the lvl20 challenge, 80% of people remake an account and of those 97% fail. But if without the lvl20 challenge, only 20% of people remake accounts.

Then, the question is, is the 3% from those 80% is worth the 60% toxic people.

Again, completely made up numbers, the point being there is a cost/benefit here to be done.


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Fanaticmogg

Senior Member

02-03-2013

Well....

A) Recently banned players may or may not make new accounts, regardless of whether or not the Level 20 Challenge exists, but the L20C would make them more likely to return and make the game a worse place for Level 1s.

B) The number of players who would be negatively affected by the removal of the L20C are exceedingly low. 1.5% of the playerbase makes it into the Tribunal at all, a very small portion of those make it to a permaban, some don't bother coming back to the game at all, and then 3-5% of THOSE might succeed at the L20C. Not a big number. On the other hand, 95-97% of those who try just ruin the game for a bunch of new players.

C) The L20C isn't even meant for hijacked accounts. It's not relevent here.


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IIWaLsHII

Senior Member

02-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudouri View Post
Its an interesting argument.

There's two sides to it really.

On Riot's side, they believe the 5 previous warnings and bannings were enough chances. If a person believes there is yet another chance after a permaban, then more people would actually try and do it.

So (using completely made up stats), if by allowing the lvl20 challenge, 80% of people remake an account and of those 97% fail. But if without the lvl20 challenge, only 20% of people remake accounts.

Then, the question is, is the 3% from those 80% is worth the 60% toxic people.

Again, completely made up numbers, the point being there is a cost/benefit here to be done.
Lets put it like this then, if person A cares enough to dispute his permaban on the forums/support/etc then surely he would remake a smurf and continue playing, correct? I mean, it's not like anything is stopping them.

Now, lets say there are players who receive a permaban and just quit. Odds are they wouldn't even go through the steps to do the Level 20 Challenge, why? Because if they wont take the time to make a smurf, why would they take the time to search the forums, make tickets, and then level up to 20 while keeping a good attitude? Forget that, just do the easy thing as make a new email and game it up again, otherwise you're risking throwing away all that time trying to reform and ending up having to restart from square 1 regardless.

I think it's apparent that the level 20 challenge doesn't make a significant difference in toxicity levels, and rather could save an innocent person ( such as myself *cough* ) from having to restart. Just a little bit of critical thinking... Regardless, I've submitted tickets. I just hoped a Red would come in and give a little insight on their decision making/logic. thanks for your post, by the way.


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IIWaLsHII

Senior Member

02-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticmogg View Post
Well....

A) Recently banned players may or may not make new accounts, regardless of whether or not the Level 20 Challenge exists, but the L20C would make them more likely to return and make the game a worse place for Level 1s.

B) The number of players who would be negatively affected by the removal of the L20C are exceedingly low. 1.5% of the playerbase makes it into the Tribunal at all, a very small portion of those make it to a permaban, some don't bother coming back to the game at all, and then 3-5% of THOSE might succeed at the L20C. Not a big number. On the other hand, 95-97% of those who try just ruin the game for a bunch of new players.

C) The L20C isn't even meant for hijacked accounts. It's not relevent here.
I already debated the first two points, but I'd like to talk about C.

Yes, my account was 'hijacked', but then permanently banned 3-4 months after the hijacking. Then, yesterday, after 3 months of the account being permanently banned, I found out.

The account was still permanently banned for toxic behavior, even if *I* didn't do it, *I* am responsibility for any actions on the account, via Riot Policy. I accept this, and don't feel like asking for the account to be unbanned is plausible, and so I feel like asking for a *chance* to prove I'm not a toxic member of the community goes much further towards helping myself then just saying "wtf it wasn't me remove ban plox".


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vvigglytuff

Senior Member

02-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudouri View Post
only 20% of people remake accounts
No way that only 20% make new accounts. Try it yourself. Make a new account, play some low-level games and see for yourself why people have such a hard time reforming.


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Fudouri

Senior Member

02-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by vvigglytuff View Post
No way that only 20% make new accounts. Try it yourself. Make a new account, play some low-level games and see for yourself why people have such a hard time reforming.
Anecdotal evidence is not evidence.

And I haven't given a personal opinion on the matter, but merely was pointing to the various sides.

We can definitely have a discussion around the percentages. OP believes that that the lvl20 challenge would not be a 60% difference. Happy to have that discussion.

The point being that there is argument to be made on both sides. As long as we can figure out where the disagreement is, we can have evidence based conversation about it.


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