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Shyvana - the forgotten Champion ?

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copperpoint

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Time for the daily bump


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Atik L Yar

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Even though I totally suck with Shyvana, I'm signing this in favor of buffing her.

The idea of such an awesome champ being so weak is just crazy...


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AIQ

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
copperpoint:


Currently 14 pages + long, but no red so far. Which gives us over there the feeling that we discuss a lot, but nobody really listenes. So maybe I can get some attention this way.



Stats Her HP scaling could be better, so that she ends up with more life to the later levels.


Passive.
Lets say it could be better

Q- Twin bite- Maybe another speed effect between activation <> hit, that way she could still use her W for escapes and be a little faster overall. // It could have some other interaction with her E like: E+Q = 1sec stun or other effects. // Double dmg against monsters ?

W- Burnout- The speedbonus isnt that high to begin with and isnt enough to chase. Usually used as a weak escape. Without hitting its only a 3sec duration.
- Fades off over time - I guess its was some kind of design from ancient times, but currently I dont see one reason why it should fade off.
- Removes CC effects on activation. (This was a big point, she has no cc and is highly vulnerable to such, why doesnt she have some form of protection? Escpecially if you take to mind that the is supposed to tak a high risk by CJ.)
- If you want to buff her early dmg or punish more: Increasing dmg over time + ignite after 4 seconds. (Usually big minions, monsters or teamfight)
- Reduce Cooldown over Lv.. Lik 8 sec when maxed?
- A partial scaling of AP or AD on her E was an idea too.
- moving through targets ?
- longer base duration for more mobility?

E- Flame breath- Now this was a big one. To a lot of people this hard to land skillshot feels highly unrewarding, even if it hits. The armor shred is her only team ability, but it makes no sense for herself, as most of her dmg is magical. The dmg is low and thanks to ap, it cant be (effectively) pushed. The armor shred is always the same 15% no matter which lv.
As long as you stay away from Shyvana, even a squishy doesnt have to dodge it, as the dmg is rather low.

Though I am not used to many champs, I currently cant think of a single one, that has a skillsot that does close to nothing and depends on something else to follow afterwards to be of real use.

Ideas: Make it hit through targets, like in her ulti. (hitting the small creeps in camps while you are directly in front oft the big one hurts.)
Could be solved by a small aoe blast on hit too.
- no animation time
- scales of ad in some way
- On hit effect was an idea too, though it worrys me how that would work in her dragon form.
- Other possible effects: Reduced armor+mgres, reduced healing (useful in lane), ignite when below X% health... some reason for an enemy to actually dodge it.
Gold when hit while debuffed ? Stun when hit with Q afterwards - would make it more scary and useful in teamfights without making her ganks stronger.

R- Dragon's Descent- Its her ONLY form of CC effect and her ulti on top if it- and it gets stopped by any kind of cc/stun, pushup or knockback, thats harsh.
Currently we discuss if her armor/mgres bonnus is up to date. It makes her slightly more tanky, but nothing close to what she needed to not melt after a dive in 2 seconds.
Maybe a slightly longer stun after initiate?
Increased range - Like when chogath grows.
Dmg bonus ? Anti cc effects? Or a different tank ability, like reduced dmg by x%, maybe based on her LV (dragonage) to support more of a hypercarry status.


In general a lot of players seem to have problems with picking items on her too.
Its not that she has a small pool, its that she wastes a lot of stats and doesnt synergize as well as other champs.


Some Quotes to finnish:
"Shyvana just isnt scary anymore"
"Fed and still useless"
"If you pick Shyva I afk"


First I agree Riot does need to be more aware of the community, perhaps if something gets enough votes or post per account riot should look into it. In riots defense however, their are MILLIONS of post, they can't view them all just because you write 20+.

Shyvanas base stats are extremely good, even now she is the most balanced, she has a decent amount of both forms damage, both forms of tankiness, speed, health is meh and regeneration is meh. Riot dosen't need to look into her base stats too much for if they tweak it slightly it may be too high and she will become OP in an instant.

Passive
For Q is fine
Dragon Passive for Q is fine

For W I think one more notch is needed, if not I'm fine with that
Dragon W needs a higher scale on the trail maybe 10-15.

E Is broken moving on

R 2 Fury per auto would be nice, if not then remove the fact that people can see when her ult is down.

Abilities
Twin bite/ Dragon Breath
You are really on to something there, if Shyvana could consume her E with her Q and cause a stun I think that would be perfect. As a dragon enemies should not clutter around her if they do then they PAID for it in season 2, now an AOE stun from an EQ combo would bring that fear back.
And don't think it's overpowered, Amumu is a tank with long range snare, 2 AOE dmg moves and a massive ult. Shyvana could use some of that love.

Burnout, if riot desires not to change the speed ups ratio then let Shyvana keep it all the way through. Even if the EQ combo is used, the base speed change hurt Shyvanas ability to close gaps with it therefore it must be buffed to make it effective.

Shyvanas Dragons Decent should make her immune to CC while launching, then the small CC from Shyvana wouldn't matter so much. Or just buff the CC.

ALL OF SHYVANAS ABILITIES SHOULD SCALE OFF OF AD. UNLESS
Riot decides to make an item that is ONLY for Shyvana and takes some AD and scales it into AP, making her more of a hybrid. An Item like this would fix any damage problems associated with Shyvana, and she would ALWAYS scale into late game fine.

No synergies?
Try getting some friends. Then play with Orianna, Lulu, Nunu, Darius, Renekton, and Katarina then tell me no one synergies with Shyvana.

Some Quotes to finish:
"Shyvana just isn't scary anymore"
True to an extent, Shyvana can easily be kite now, warded, and kept up with in farm. ...But that's why we are writing this right?
"Fed and still useless"
BS, Feed my Shyvana and tell me that. If I can get 5 uncontested kills I bet I can 3v1 your team.
Get skill then post.
"If you pick Shyva I afk"
The pure essence of a noob that will be Bronze till everyone stops playing LoL and he's the only one left. Shyvana is not useless, that's not what the problem is. It's just champions like Amumu, Jarvan, Xin, and more do her job and can gank due to the fact that they all got buffed in season 3.

Shyvana is still awesome.

MUNDO!? Screw Mundo, freaking suicidal moron. Mundo fans take your precious Mundo and fight a Shyvana. Go as anti as you want If Shyvana or any champion builds and executioner calling let's see how well your Mundo fairs.
Mundo does not compare to Shyvana for these reasons:
Mundo sucks 24/7 and is easy to kill and shut down pre 6 once shut down cannot come back well. NO ONE wants to fight Shyvana pre 6 and she can comeback easy.
Mundo gets a damage boost from E, Shyvana get's a defensive boost. Ummm, which one is doing their job?
Mundos Q is nice and strong Shyvanas petty E has no chance.
W's Mundos cost health Shyvanas is free. Damage is in Mundos favor, but at the cost of his own health for the deficit.... worth it? Not for me.
Ults
Ignite Mundo, he dies.
Ignite Shyvana she laughs and kills you.
Granted Mundo has a TON of health, Shyvana relies on Armor and MR which in season 3 hurts because of the armor pen items. However, they are both still as tanky as one another, but this is one main reason why they don't compare.
Attack speed and movement speed, lol really?

Mundo gets faster. SHYVANA BECOMES A DRAGON!!!! Just saying. XD

Mundo forgets his name, why? Because he's a dumb "three stars."
Think your a Dragon Slayer? Come here and TRY!
Best taunt in LoL.

Over all I hope this goes well, and Shyvana gets her much needed buff.

And let's show Udyr some love too, he's been hurt since mid season 2.

OH!! Thoughts on a Skin "Mecha/ Battlecast" Shyvana?


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Sir Bulbasaur

Senior Member

02-08-2013

bumping, i really want to see my dragon lady strong again


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IWontFrascUAgain

Member

02-08-2013

@MurkinAIQ I agree with almost everything you said. Shyvana was my favorite jungle in s2 and I wish they would buff her a little to be viable again, she is such a blast to play. I think you bashed mundo a little hard though, lol. In my opinion, i think hisq is better than burnout. Sure it may cost health and that downplays it pre-6 and in the early game in general. But, the cc reduction and damage makes it a better skill in general than burnout.


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AIQ

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Yeah I mean I like Mundo, but all that talk that he's a superior version of Shyvana is nonsense. Who did M5 destroy with again? Mundos Q is amazing, but the W trade off is iffy. And I say again, that's why they don't really compare.
Just because they're tanks with AOE Ws doesn't mean they can compare to each other.


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Valduran

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Bamp. Only read the first post but good analysis with good ideas. Riot, time to revisit one of the most fun melee champions in the game and bring her up to date.


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MrRandomJr

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Passive? What passive?


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AIQ

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
MrRandomJr:
Passive? What passive?

Shyvana TECHNICALLY has 8 passives;
Main Passive
Fury of the Dragonborn

Shyvana's melee attacks enhance her abilities.

Twin Bite - Reduces the cooldown by 0.5 seconds.
Burnout - Extends the duration by 1 second to a maximum of 6 seconds.
Flame Breath - Deals 15% of the ability's damage to debuffed targets.
Dragon's Descent - Attacks generate 2 fury and Shyvana passively gains fury over time while in human form.

Additional as Dragon
Dragon Form: Twin Bite cleaves all units in front Shyvana.
Range 650
{The main reason think a slow/stun should be attached to her E that she can consume.}

Dragon Form: Burnout scorches the earth, continuing to damage enemies that stand on it.
Range 325

Dragon Form: Flame Breath engulfs all units in a cone in front of her.
Range 925

Passive: Shyvana reinforces her scales, increasing her resistances. Defensive bonuses are doubled in Dragon Form.
Range 1000

Yes I'm a huge Shyvana nerd. She's the only reason why I made it to 1400 elo preseason the change. That's why my first post is so long. XD


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Askeel

Member

02-08-2013

Finally someone talk about this problem!! "s3 Shyv", actually If u are good, Shyvana can be really scary in the game , but not like s2, my masteries now are 21/9/0 :S i need to do this just because i cant clean the jungle like s2, its really weird play starting with that Jungler item, we have more problems, early game we have a really bad movement speed, we are not the super tank shyv like before in early and mid game :C, how to explain to u Riot, Shyvana its my best, my main Jungler ever, with she i learn a lot!! i love shyvana so much xD! give him a little buff plz C: