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ELO Hell Is Stronger now

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eabe

Senior Member

02-02-2013

First off I would like to reiterate (as I think it got lost in the 100+ pages):

Quote:
Yegg:
If your hidden matchmaking rating (MMR) is far below where it should be for your current division, you will gain LP much more slowly. Similarly, if for some reason your MMR is far above where it should be for your current division, you will gain LP more quickly. Throwing games will not help you out in this system. It's always better to win the game you're playing, regardless of if it's part of a division series, or if you've just been promoted, or if it's just a typical game in the middle of the division standings.


Quote:
eabe:
Look at what I bolded. Does anyone else find what this red said to be backwards? Yet they are all up voting it. I wish my post were red I'd get free up votes too.

Or lets all hope this is true. So that when I am ranked higher then I should be. I can stay there easier then people who should be there. And the people stuck in ELO Hell cay stay stuck there. Because that's what I get from this.

A red post has made it all clear why ELO Hell exists in the first place. Because they wanted it that way.


I could go into more details but I'll let the reds do the talking this time. Of course it's not elo hell anymore now its more like Division hell. but basically the same thing only worse.


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Baxter the Teddy

Senior Member

02-02-2013

If your hidden ELO is MUCH LOWER than your current level (IE your hidden ELO says you are Silver but your in plat) You will gain LP SLOWLY. (Until your hidden ELO catches up)

If your hidden ELO is MUCH HIGHER than your current level, you'll gain more to get back to where you belong.

So, basically, if you didn't play much normals(which I believe is what MMR is, the hidden ELO in normals?) you can suck it...


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fr33f4ll

Member

02-02-2013

Quote:
flc madman:
if your hidden elo is much lower than your current level (ie your hidden elo says you are silver but your in plat) you will gain lp slowly. (until your hidden elo catches up)

if your hidden elo is much higher than your current level, you'll gain more to get back to where you belong.

So, basically, if you didn't play much normals(which i believe is what mmr is, the hidden elo in normals?) you can suck it...



stfu


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ninjagear

Senior Member

02-02-2013

if ur MMR (match making rating) is much lower than were it is supposed to be (ur being matched against difficult opponents, lets say a silver in with golds, then when he wins, he wont be pushed into plat faster than he should be. he will have to grind out some games for MMR to match his LP. which is a good thing. the silver player was put into hard games by accident, if he gets carried in a few games, he wont be pushed into a division where he cannot hang at all. and vise versa, if ur MMR is plat, and ur in a silver division, then ur LP will rush to meet u.

its a rubberband correction system. the farther ur MMR (hidden rating) is from ur LP (visible rank) then the system will take this in to account when adjusting ur MMR and LP, allowing the two to meet each other.


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eabe

Senior Member

02-04-2013

OK I guess I will go into this then.

First Two bolded points: Says if your ranked lower then you should be then you gain LP much more slowly. so let me explain what that means. Using your example above. lets say your a gold level player stuck in silver. You are matched with other silver players. Even though your league level is gold. (Note that you can't drop leagues only divisions however you can be pared with people in bronze if you loose enough games.)

So in other wards the new system comes out and puts you at the bottom of your league/division. You are unlucky and loose your first 2 or 3 games. Then you do average and loose 1 win 1 and so on. Basically you gain LP and MMR so slowly that you never progress, and your stuck playing with people at a lower level that you just can't seem to carry. So Yes your now in a worse state of ELO Hell. As your progression is even more penalized then it was before.

The worst part is you will have a gold badge but wont know that your actually getting pared with people of the low silver or even bronze. The system will be hiding all that info from you.

Last two bolded points: Now lets reverse this, and say your skill level is actually a bronze level. But you got supper lucky and got carried your first 10 games. The system gave you platinum or gold after your assessment games. You then loose a lot because your placed higher then you should be. However you get carried to victory every once in a while. And because you gain more LP then you should; you stay where your at. You get constantly yield at by your fellow players. But heck who cares your platinum right?

I don't think you guys are quite reading this right. Either way I don't see either scenario as being fun for either player. Though the one may be able to brag about being platinum he probable won't play ranked much as he will just get rolled all the time, or he may just stop playing all together. Then again he may just like to troll people too.


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jangley

Member

02-04-2013

Quote:
eabe:
I don't think you guys are quite reading this right. Either way I don't see either scenario as being fun for either player. Though the one may be able to brag about being platinum he probable won't play ranked much as he will just get rolled all the time, or he may just stop playing all together. Then again he may just like to troll people too.


I don't think you're understanding what is actually happening. In your scenario where the player was carried to plat but plays with bronze, you stated he gains more LP than he should normally, and this is just plain false. In this scenario, with him losing games frequently, his MMR would tank and he would gain VERY LITTLE from wins, because his rank is platinum but his MMR is bronze. The system would keep him from moving up because he isn't platinum material.

In your first example of a gold stuck in silver, if you lose a couple, then continue to win/lose 1:1 in silver guess what, you're a silver player not gold. Otherwise you'd win more, and throughout all of this your MMR would equalize to where you play at (gold), and you would gain more/lose less until you get to the division where that MMR is appropriate (gold).


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eabe

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
jangley:
I don't think you're understanding what is actually happening. In your scenario where the player was carried to plat but plays with bronze, you stated he gains more LP than he should normally, and this is just plain false. In this scenario, with him losing games frequently, his MMR would tank and he would gain VERY LITTLE from wins, because his rank is platinum but his MMR is bronze. The system would keep him from moving up because he isn't platinum material.

In your first example of a gold stuck in silver, if you lose a couple, then continue to win/lose 1:1 in silver guess what, you're a silver player not gold. Otherwise you'd win more, and throughout all of this your MMR would equalize to where you play at (gold), and you would gain more/lose less until you get to the division where that MMR is appropriate (gold).


You failed to read. I never said that he played with bronze players. I said his skill level was bronze. He gains LP more rapidly because he is ranked higher. As per the dev quot above. I don't think people know how too read in these forums and you just proved it.

MMR number has nothing to do with how much LP you have. A win will give you LP regardless of your MMR. If he looses a ton it gets reset every win as he can't drop tears. The only thing MMR has been stated to do is lower the amount of LP you gain once your close to the top of your division. Go read the FAQ and the in-game guide.

Basically he would have to loose 100+ games in a row to drop to being matched with bronze players. Think of all those angry players as he gets to where he should be.

But for heck sake lets say he plays 1 or two games with bronze players and wins. Lets see whats that do? hmm it gives him LP. He is now in 20th place in platinum tear division 5. So lets say the system keeps matching him with his MMR and he wins the next 5 games. At which he will play his promotional. And if it matches him with bronze tear still he gets promoted. He is now messing up platinum tear 4 why? because he is in his grace period. He will be messing with all the tears again tell he looses 100+ games again.

As for your second paragraph. Lets just say your an idiot. You must really think everyone in the system is where they should be, because the matching making system is perfect right? And as long as everyone plays a ton of games it will equalize them out. Here is where you fail in all logic. You look at the system like its a black box. You have no idea of its inner workings and just go off of this magic MMR #. With no math behind it and no reason other then it will work.

Now look at the dev's comment more closely and point out to me where it says this bronze skill level player will be penalized for being over rated. He will be platinum the rest of his LOL account life. Stuck at constantly being pulled up to a Higher lever of play just because he does good every once in awhile. This system will be even more broke. Just think about people leveling up others accounts and others giving away there accounts. I really doubt you have given this any thought other then it will all work out, because someone said so.

I can see the trolling to be potential high. Right now most people are hipped about the new system. I bet currently games are going good, and right now most players are moving up. Give it a few weeks maybe months when people start hitting those brick walls. You will see a huge decline of active players in rank. Your pool will expand to more divisions and everyone will be crying I'm in division hell. I can't get out off it, because everyone sucks in my division. And hopefully through it all Riot will realize there mistake and make it so you can fall down a league. Sure it sounds nice and all not having to regain your hard earned status, but do you really want to be trapped playing with those who didn't earn it?


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eabe

Senior Member

02-08-2013

So to further prove my point. I just played two games.

First game well we lost my team had 9 kills over all. Out of that I had 6 of them and 3 assist. I lost 21 LP points

Next game I played we win. I went 15 5 8. I was the focus in both games and pretty much was the major player both times. However I only gained 8 LP

I suppose I have to win 3x more then I loose in order to advance even though my losses aren't really my fault.

As you move up in ranking the harder it becomes to carry. Your MMR will only prove to hurt you unless your ranked higher then you should be. However if your like me it will only make it extremely harder to get where you should be.


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eastcoastblaze

Senior Member

02-08-2013

riot you havent addressed the real issue here, from my own personal understanding you made the league system because people were worried about losing too much elo. SO riot made the league system, ok i thought it was a good idea at first. but the problem isnt elo or league, its the community. Trolls who screw everyone else over, and get away with a slap on the wrist. The problem was people felt cheated out of elo, cheated out of elo because someone was trolling or someone left, or didnt even show up. A reasonable response to this would just allow the team that was fighting 4v5 or with a troll not to lose elo due to a lost. But instead you invented the league system which just allows you to dance around the real issue. If you stop the trolls then ranked will actually be a test of skill, and not about how few games you get with trolls


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Selcopa

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
eabe:
You failed to read. I never said that he played with bronze players. I said his skill level was bronze. He gains LP more rapidly because he is ranked higher. As per the dev quot above. I don't think people know how too read in these forums and you just proved it.

MMR number has nothing to do with how much LP you have. A win will give you LP regardless of your MMR. If he looses a ton it gets reset every win as he can't drop tears. The only thing MMR has been stated to do is lower the amount of LP you gain once your close to the top of your division. Go read the FAQ and the in-game guide.

Basically he would have to loose 100+ games in a row to drop to being matched with bronze players. Think of all those angry players as he gets to where he should be.

But for heck sake lets say he plays 1 or two games with bronze players and wins. Lets see whats that do? hmm it gives him LP. He is now in 20th place in platinum tear division 5. So lets say the system keeps matching him with his MMR and he wins the next 5 games. At which he will play his promotional. And if it matches him with bronze tear still he gets promoted. He is now messing up platinum tear 4 why? because he is in his grace period. He will be messing with all the tears again tell he looses 100+ games again.

As for your second paragraph. Lets just say your an idiot. You must really think everyone in the system is where they should be, because the matching making system is perfect right? And as long as everyone plays a ton of games it will equalize them out. Here is where you fail in all logic. You look at the system like its a black box. You have no idea of its inner workings and just go off of this magic MMR #. With no math behind it and no reason other then it will work.

Now look at the dev's comment more closely and point out to me where it says this bronze skill level player will be penalized for being over rated. He will be platinum the rest of his LOL account life. Stuck at constantly being pulled up to a Higher lever of play just because he does good every once in awhile. This system will be even more broke. Just think about people leveling up others accounts and others giving away there accounts. I really doubt you have given this any thought other then it will all work out, because someone said so.

I can see the trolling to be potential high. Right now most people are hipped about the new system. I bet currently games are going good, and right now most players are moving up. Give it a few weeks maybe months when people start hitting those brick walls. You will see a huge decline of active players in rank. Your pool will expand to more divisions and everyone will be crying I'm in division hell. I can't get out off it, because everyone sucks in my division. And hopefully through it all Riot will realize there mistake and make it so you can fall down a league. Sure it sounds nice and all not having to regain your hard earned status, but do you really want to be trapped playing with those who didn't earn it?

I actually haven't met a player who was 200 points from their MMR for an extended period of time, I would love to meet this person ive been searching for him for about 2 years now.

This video might help you out with many of your concerns, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zdG-FzA5-A

Specifically the last 2 minutes address some of your problems.


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