Fixing "League of Warmog"

12
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Schtauffenz

Senior Member

02-02-2013

Reintroduce Madred's Bloodrazor.

Lykwtf? xD Why was this item ever removed, anyway?


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Fanaticmogg

Senior Member

02-02-2013

I don't think that'll fix it. At all.

Madred's was always a very overcosted and underpowered item. Barely anyone used it. Now, we have Blade of the Ruined King, which may drain based on current rather than max HP, but it costs 900 less ( about 22%ish of Madred's' cost), heals you, and, possibly most importantly, benefits from ArPen (so a bit of MR won't make it useless).

I could support Madred's being remade with tweaked stats and a lower cost (I did like it, even if I had no chance to use it), but as it was, it would just act as a lure for unskilled players and not solve the problem at all.


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ProfDrDeath

Senior Member

02-02-2013

^I second this.

Maybe as an upgrade for Wit's End:

Wit's End + Long Sword.
40% AS, 25 MR, 10-20 AD
3200+ gold
Unique passive of Wit's End (the stacking MR)
Unique passive of good ol' Madred's Bloodrazors


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Tyr Ahn Nee

Senior Member

02-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schtauffenz View Post
Reintroduce Madred's Bloodrazor.

Lykwtf? xD Why was this item ever removed, anyway?
Wow, you guys misinterpret everything!
"Fixing League of Warmog" .... I take it that means that more and more players are buying/equiping Warmogs.
But, you don't associate this, in any way, shape, form or fashion, with Riot's stated intention to "Make Damage Mean Something."
It doesn't occur to you that the increase in the use of Warmogs is due entirely to Riot's efforts to "Make Damage Mean Something"

Or, that the solution isn't the return of an item, the solution is an End to Riot's "make damage mean something" design philosophy, goal, policy, objective.


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Vuther

Senior Member

02-02-2013

Bloodrazor sucked and was truly a noob trap, so no, it wouldn't.


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Forlon

Senior Member

02-02-2013

bloodrazor sucked.


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KøD The Chøsen

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Senior Member

02-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfDrDeath View Post
^I second this.

Maybe as an upgrade for Wit's End:

Wit's End + Long Sword.
40% AS, 25 MR, 10-20 AD
3200+ gold
Unique passive of Wit's End (the stacking MR)
Unique passive of good ol' Madred's Bloodrazors
Ehhhh. not too sure about that.


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67chrome

Senior Member

02-02-2013

Or, you know, they could buff Blade of the Ruined King to deal %Maximum Health damage instead - because said item is 10x cooler than Madred's ever was (and it's icon looks pretty legit, unlike a certain rubber Halloween glove with pointy nails). Really though, nails are like the lamest possible "weapon" to have.

Making health more expensive or resistances less expensive could work as well, as it stands Warmog's seems to be seeing more play more because armor and magic resistance are close to worthless rather than Warmog's actually being strong. Which basically means any gold you're spending on resistances would be better spent on health (unless you have a ridiculous amount of health). And considering Warmog's is pretty much it for noteworthy defense items that have health and no armor or MR, it sees plenty of play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticmogg View Post
I don't think that'll fix it. At all.

Madred's was always a very overcosted and underpowered item. Barely anyone used it. Now, we have Blade of the Ruined King, which may drain based on current rather than max HP, but it costs 900 less ( about 22%ish of Madred's' cost), heals you, and, possibly most importantly, benefits from ArPen (so a bit of MR won't make it useless).

I could support Madred's being remade with tweaked stats and a lower cost (I did like it, even if I had no chance to use it), but as it was, it would just act as a lure for unskilled players and not solve the problem at all.
Eh, Bloodrazor wasn't bad, not in the overpriced category anyways - it preformed rather well for the investment required, it was just hyper-expensive for a counter item and had silly things like Armor. Beyond that all it really does is damage, and considering most tanky champions tend to have more resistances the on-hit effect generally caused you to deal more or less the same flat damage to squishy targets as tanks, not really fullfilling any anti-tank capacity.

But 40 AD and 40 AS gives you more or less the equivalent of 96-77 AD, and when the attack speed stops increasing DPS by as much the health shred applied on top of it starts being noticeable. I actually did the math not to long ago, and a Black Cleaver + Madred's Bloodrazor combo causes you to deal more damage than an Infinity Edge + Phantom Dancer combo, just by merits of the AD and AS on Bloodrazor being a little ridiculous. If it weren't for the armor and/or health shred it probably would have seen more play on ADCs, as AD+AS on an item offers pretty noticeable scaling right away. Everything else about Madred's made it seem less appealing for jump-starting auto-attack damage though, the health shred only really scales with AS and opponents leveling up, so it ended up being something more useful on Bruisers who are only picking up 1-2 offensive items for notworthy damage that didn't need multipliers - especially junglers, were you fight against things with ~2k health right away. But a potential 96-77 AD equivalent without the health shred made Madred's pretty effective regardless of MR, as you're dealing boatloads of physical damage regardless.

Madred's had problems, but dealing damage wasn't it.


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mark4505

Senior Member

02-03-2013

Remove/nerf warmog. Its cheap, and currently making this game a tank-fested game. Not even ADC don't even go GA anymore. They go warmog..

And then you fix armor/mr so they aren't totally worthless.


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mark4505

Senior Member

02-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67chrome View Post
Or, you know, they could buff Blade of the Ruined King to deal %Maximum Health damage instead - because said item is 10x cooler than Madred's ever was (and it's icon looks pretty legit, unlike a certain rubber Halloween glove with pointy nails). Really though, nails are like the lamest possible "weapon" to have.

Making health more expensive or resistances less expensive could work as well, as it stands Warmog's seems to be seeing more play more because armor and magic resistance are close to worthless rather than Warmog's actually being strong. Which basically means any gold you're spending on resistances would be better spent on health (unless you have a ridiculous amount of health). And considering Warmog's is pretty much it for noteworthy defense items that have health and no armor or MR, it sees plenty of play.



Eh, Bloodrazor wasn't bad, not in the overpriced category anyways - it preformed rather well for the investment required, it was just hyper-expensive for a counter item and had silly things like Armor. Beyond that all it really does is damage, and considering most tanky champions tend to have more resistances the on-hit effect generally caused you to deal more or less the same flat damage to squishy targets as tanks, not really fullfilling any anti-tank capacity.

But 40 AD and 40 AS gives you more or less the equivalent of 96-77 AD, and when the attack speed stops increasing DPS by as much the health shred applied on top of it starts being noticeable. I actually did the math not to long ago, and a Black Cleaver + Madred's Bloodrazor combo causes you to deal more damage than an Infinity Edge + Phantom Dancer combo, just by merits of the AD and AS on Bloodrazor being a little ridiculous. If it weren't for the armor and/or health shred it probably would have seen more play on ADCs, as AD+AS on an item offers pretty noticeable scaling right away. Everything else about Madred's made it seem less appealing for jump-starting auto-attack damage though, the health shred only really scales with AS and opponents leveling up, so it ended up being something more useful on Bruisers who are only picking up 1-2 offensive items for notworthy damage that didn't need multipliers - especially junglers, were you fight against things with ~2k health right away. But a potential 96-77 AD equivalent without the health shred made Madred's pretty effective regardless of MR, as you're dealing boatloads of physical damage regardless.

Madred's had problems, but dealing damage wasn't it.
Was that why a total of zero pros go Bloodrazor before it was removed and everyone is going warmog...

No one even gets its replacement.


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