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[Guide] Let's Do This! A potentially new way to look at Jax

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Lord Mayhem

Senior Member

12-02-2009

Quote:
Bait:
i just don't like the guide. i don't agree with most of it.


That's nice that you don't agree with it. Way to not provide any meaningful feedback.


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Lord Mayhem

Senior Member

12-02-2009

Quote:
Bait:
i just don't like the guide. i don't agree with most of it.


Maybe you should provide some feedback then...


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Foxx1987

Junior Member

12-02-2009

I usually level up Counter Strike first. Especially if I'm soloing. The added evade helps so much with being able to last hit against range heroes. Plus, you can leap strike harass a lot better. Once you take a few hits go for the stun, and they will be heading back to tower/blue pilling. Also why I take Ninja Tabai... My build for Jax focuses entirely around his ability to out dodge the opposing team.


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Steelrambo

Senior Member

12-03-2009

Quote:
Foxx1987:
I usually level up Counter Strike first. Especially if I'm soloing. The added evade helps so much with being able to last hit against range heroes. Plus, you can leap strike harass a lot better. Once you take a few hits go for the stun, and they will be heading back to tower/blue pilling. Also why I take Ninja Tabai... My build for Jax focuses entirely around his ability to out dodge the opposing team.


I do Counterstrike, too, but Leap Strike is crucial for the harass. Counterstrike itself can't really do a whole lot to discourage farming and last-hitting; you need a legitimate harass to make sure they don't get the gold they need. As far as Ninja Tabai, I think that's the big difference here-- early on, dodging allows for more survivability, but doesn't do anything as far as harassing and netting an early kill. Counterstrike, despite its short cooldown, is not the best in terms of keeping your mana pool.


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Ghostraider

Senior Member

12-03-2009

Interesting being messing about with something similair since the patch Sword Of The Divine works very well in this style of build.


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Dullindal

Senior Member

12-04-2009

Up untill the items i agree with you.
While AS is really important on jax, you are getting way to much with these items...
You should remember that his ult. also gives speed every hit.

With just the Phantom Dancer and Malady/Starks i get enough speed to max it with my ult. buff.
And the Ninja tabi is kinda perfect for Jax, it does give you less burst at the beginning, but it makes you untouchable late game.

I think the most usefull items for Jax should be:

Starks/Malady (Depends on what my teammates get)
Ninja Tabi
Frozen Mallet/Phantom
Phantom/ Frozen.
Banshee for Magic heavy team.
Infinity to finish it.


With your new way of looking at Jax i was expecting something Totaly new..


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Akuma

Recruiter

12-04-2009

Quote:
Steelrambo:
I do Counterstrike, too, but Leap Strike is crucial for the harass. Counterstrike itself can't really do a whole lot to discourage farming and last-hitting; you need a legitimate harass to make sure they don't get the gold they need. As far as Ninja Tabai, I think that's the big difference here-- early on, dodging allows for more survivability, but doesn't do anything as far as harassing and netting an early kill. Counterstrike, despite its short cooldown, is not the best in terms of keeping your mana pool.


This basically encapsulates where many of us disagree with you.

1. Leap strike is crucial for harass, but you don't need to put ability points toward it as much as you are doing. Counterstrike gives you more dodge plus faster stun cooldown to proc the stun again. I.e., counterstike is both offensive and defensive. Leap strike is good, but the added damage is negligible, and though the cooldown reduction is nice when you level it up, the ability to stun people is more important IMHO.
2. Ninja Tabi on Jax is a no brainer. You need the dodge for Jax for both survivability and Counterstike. You are thinking offensively, but Jax's problem is that he will be slowed and stunned a lot, which is why being able to spam counterstikes as fast as possible is important (you stun then before they can stun you, it's like having a stun every 5 seconds).

Put another way, maxing leap strike is too short sided. L1 Leap Strike will get you in, so what's the point of L2-5? It's for more damage and shorter cooldown for the leap strike. But those aren't his problems. His problem is that once he is in, how can he survive and maintiain DPS on his target? The answer? Counterstrike, for the added dodge and stun.


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vvolfster

Senior Member

12-06-2009

I agree with Akuma. Though your build seems okay, I just done see enough DPS in there, esp if you're going to go inf edge last. You wont even damage tanks all that much despite having last whisper. You need some attack to make last whisper more effective and yes, it is effective indeed.

I also disagree with not getting empower early. Empower + leapstrike early game at lvl2 almost always guarantees deaths. Jax will hit most squishies for almost half of their health with charged up empower and leapstrike.

Also, soloing does grant you money, agreed. It does not give you a lot of early kills, I'm sorry. If you have a rammus laning with you, and if you're any good. You're bound to get 2-3 kills before you hit lvl6. Maybe even more, depending on how stupid you're opponents are.

As for the build, here's what I do, since i have 11% dodge coming into the game cause of runes, I dont really need ninja tabi.

I get regular boots first, which can be neglected for a vampire scepter, whatever floats your boat. And 3 health potions to help me stay in lane longer.

Next, I'll farm last hit minions like crazy or get some kills with my rammus teammate. By the time I hit lvl5-6, I'll have enough for a bfsword.

Bp back to base, get bfsword. Start ganking as soon as you get relentless asault. With a bfsword at lvl6, it should be a no brainer. Always enter fights when your opponent is low on mana or has just used his ultimate. Jax's biggest problem is getting snared, slowed, etc.

If all is going well and if you have 6-0 stats by lvl8-10, you should technically have enough for last whisper. If not, get recurve bow and vampire scepter (if you went for boots first). Once you have the money complete last whisper.

At this point, Jax will be able to deal insane damage because of the last whisper and bfsword combo. If you wanna go all offensive, get enough money to turn bfsword into an inf edge. If you want to increase survivability, go for a mallet first.

After you get mallet, finish your inf edge. You should be doing around 600 damage each hit (if it crits and it does that a lot when you devastate). Now, upgrade your scepter to Blood thirster to increase your damage to around 900 (when its maxed out). Or go for phantom dancer first. After you're done with both, get berserker greaves or gain enough money to build another phantom dancer but that's rare. matches are usually over by then.

You'll get around 1300 dps, 1000 lifesteal in 5 secs, 6 crits in 5 secs (60% crit chance) which roughly give you 2300 bonus crit damage. So basically, in 5 seconds, you'll cause almost 7000 damage, enough to 2-3 hit almost anyone. To do this though, always go into fights when enemy ults are used.

http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Jax/2c3f13fde2fe0ee4cd84f75f44a680b9

I've seen Jax'es go for dodge first and fail ultimately against sword of the divine. Jax needs to hit hard and get kills to gain an advantage over the enemy team. On more than one occasion, with this build, I have had triple kills with jax while all 3 were targeting me. I usually get around 15/3 to 20/5 with this build. Don't get me wrong though, I still fail hard sometimes. But thats the norm anyway.


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Bait

Recruiter

12-06-2009

you start with 1 in each skill. i like leap, empower, then counter.
empower + leap = harass combo, best and only way for jax to harass decently at start. aside from that, the skill build is fine.

counter doesn't proc often if you are a decent player. reason: you don't get hit that much.

his item suggestions are very bad.
vamp scepter on melee = suicide against a decent opponent.
berserker boots = never used, usually merc treads
purp runes = hp, never exp.

for items i usually just start with saph crystal + 2 hp potion -> trinity force.
boots of speed -> merc treads

summoner spell = exhaust + cleanse, no doubt.

jax is pretty much nonexistent in top tier play.


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Steelrambo

Senior Member

12-11-2009

Quote:
Dullindal:
Up untill the items i agree with you.
While AS is really important on jax, you are getting way to much with these items...
You should remember that his ult. also gives speed every hit.

With just the Phantom Dancer and Malady/Starks i get enough speed to max it with my ult. buff.
And the Ninja tabi is kinda perfect for Jax, it does give you less burst at the beginning, but it makes you untouchable late game.

I think the most usefull items for Jax should be:

Starks/Malady (Depends on what my teammates get)
Ninja Tabi
Frozen Mallet/Phantom
Phantom/ Frozen.
Banshee for Magic heavy team.
Infinity to finish it.


With your new way of looking at Jax i was expecting something Totaly new..


The only difference here, I think, is that you take Ninja Tabai. Another reason that I enjoy the Greaves more is that in the mid-game ganking stage, you can help your teammates quickly gain lane control in their respective lanes through the ability to finish opponents quickly with the increased AS. I actually *do* agree (after a week or so of throwing Ninja Tabai on my Jaxes) that Ninja Tabai helps late game, but if you manage to help your team obliterate the side lanes, you have put yourself in a great position for anything to follow. Despite the fact that the Tabai will help you live through teamfights late game, you might never even get there if you manage to gain thorough lane control in the early and middle stages.

Quote:
Bait:
you start with 1 in each skill. i like leap, empower, then counter.
empower + leap = harass combo, best and only way for jax to harass decently at start. aside from that, the skill build is fine.

counter doesn't proc often if you are a decent player. reason: you don't get hit that much.

his item suggestions are very bad.
vamp scepter on melee = suicide against a decent opponent.
berserker boots = never used, usually merc treads
purp runes = hp, never exp.

for items i usually just start with saph crystal + 2 hp potion -> trinity force.
boots of speed -> merc treads

summoner spell = exhaust + cleanse, no doubt.

jax is pretty much nonexistent in top tier play.


I like the advice here. Counter doesn't proc, certainly, if you're a really good player, but part of the early game, as I play it, is grabbing a counter through a getting hit by creeps a few times. Your comment regarding Vampire Scepter may very well be true, but in the bracket in which I play, I don't see anybody who has effectively stopped my lifesteal with the scepter. Maybe when I rise into a higher bracket, this will change, and I actually think it will. Of course, people who play in my bracket and higher don't really need guides to play this guy, either. Mercury Treads is a fantastic idea, as well, but that revolves mostly around looking at the opposing team composition. Where I play, I'll still see teams that stack a ton of physical dps carries. For that reason, Greaves and even Tabai are better choices. Once again, this will change as I start seeing teams that have an intelligent make-up. I think Experience runes fall into the same category.

I do have a question, though-- Why HP runes instead of Experience or Dodge?

Quote:
Akuma:
This basically encapsulates where many of us disagree with you.

1. Leap strike is crucial for harass, but you don't need to put ability points toward it as much as you are doing. Counterstrike gives you more dodge plus faster stun cooldown to proc the stun again. I.e., counterstike is both offensive and defensive. Leap strike is good, but the added damage is negligible, and though the cooldown reduction is nice when you level it up, the ability to stun people is more important IMHO.
2. Ninja Tabi on Jax is a no brainer. You need the dodge for Jax for both survivability and Counterstike. You are thinking offensively, but Jax's problem is that he will be slowed and stunned a lot, which is why being able to spam counterstikes as fast as possible is important (you stun then before they can stun you, it's like having a stun every 5 seconds).

Put another way, maxing leap strike is too short sided. L1 Leap Strike will get you in, so what's the point of L2-5? It's for more damage and shorter cooldown for the leap strike. But those aren't his problems. His problem is that once he is in, how can he survive and maintiain DPS on his target? The answer? Counterstrike, for the added dodge and stun.


This all makes sense. Leap Strike doesn't just get you in, though, it'll get your lane opponent to back off for a few seconds. And how long he decides to back off depends entirely on what kind of damage you just nailed him with. I can certainly see grabbing Empower early, and experimenting with that has actually yielded slightly better scores, so I'll change up my skill build to reflect that. Stunning people is great in teamfights AND 1v1, but when the opponent can still simply shirk the stun and run over to the tower, you haven't really gained a whole lot other than preventing him from farming, which is something that a Leap Strike/Empower could accomplish on its own.

Keep the comments coming, please. It allows me to find new ways to experiment with Jax, and has even switched up a few of the things I do regularly.