Elise: level w first.

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Mephistofeles666

Senior Member

02-02-2013

First, sorry for my bad english, is not my natal lenguage :P.

Untill now there was nearly no discussion: q was more effective at harassing. But now, after the nerf, I believe is MUCH better to level w first. This are my reasons:

Lets start looking at the damage at level 1. If the targets has 312 hp, Q and W do the same damage. More HP, and Q does more damage. Less HP, and W is better. We can be sure that any champion WILL have more than 312 hp 90% of the time, so at level 1 q is better, if more costly. But we are talking about what is better to LEVEL first. And this take us to my next point.

W scalates MUCH better. Why? Because both q and w scalates by adding FLAT damage. The exact numbers extracted from the wiki :
Neurotoxin (Q): 50 / 95 / 140 / 185 / 230
Volatile Spiderling (W): 75 / 125 / 175 / 225 / 275 (+0.8 AP)
As you see, W always have more flat damage. This is balanced by the extra "+8% of current healt" in Neurotoxin. But wait, does that porcentage changes with levels? NO. The main source of damage that Neurotoxin has DOES NOT SCALATE, and its the same at level 1 than at level 5. This is why is a good idea to put a point in it at level 1, and then focus on leveling W.

In a side note: if you know how to use it, you WILL land that spider. Its even easier to land w than q. Why? A couple reasons.
The range displayed is just how far the spider can go in its "first trip". If it does not collide with anything, then it will "scan the area", looking for objectives. This can be minions, neutral mobs, or champions, prioritizing the last ones. This make for some cool plays. Is the enemy behind a line of minions, believing that will protect him? Send the the spiderling to the side of the line. When it reaches its max range, it will "see" the enemy champion and start to pursuing it. In the end, you make some kind of "arc" skillshot. Besides, the speed of the spider increase the closer it is to its target, so is ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE to run away from it.
Also, W is AoE. The radius of the explosion is small, but enough to be effective. Especially in team fights.

TL;DR: Q is very powerfull, but W scalates better. Put a point in Q at level one, and then in this order R->W->Q->E.


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Thirteenthorder

Member

02-02-2013

fraud.

jk interesting read.

jk I just read the TL;DR


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Mephistofeles666

Senior Member

02-02-2013

That guy over me has relation to the mafia and yordle brothels. Dont listen to him.


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Thirteenthorder

Member

02-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mephistofeles666 View Post
That guy over me has relation to the mafia and yordle brothels. Dont listen to him.
Get out on the corner and work for your money like Tristana and Lulu.


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Mephistofeles666

Senior Member

02-02-2013

Stop changing the topic or people wouldn't take it serious ._.
PD: we are not wierdos, he is my friend. He is just annoyng me.


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HOMO KPOP

Senior Member

02-02-2013

Maxing Q is still better, and a lot better especially if top lane. You just have more chances to harass with Q and gain a better advantage.
And maxing W, it's only useful in human form.


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Mephistofeles666

Senior Member

02-02-2013

Did you just read what i say?
I play elise top nearly always, and im telling you that maxing w is more usefull, normally.
And skitering frenzy useless? Do you know that you gain hp with each hit, right? That means an extra kick to your sustainability (plus, extra damage to towers).
Sorry, but you will have to give better reasons to support your opinion...


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HOMO KPOP

Senior Member

02-02-2013

And IMO, building tanky AP bruiser (w/e you want to call it) is better for Elise than straight AP. How is W easier to land than Q if you're just pressing Q then clicking on the enemy?

Isn't it easier for the enemy to duel if you max W? After you send your spiders, they come in because your Q does little damage, now you don't have much to gain the advantage with in a trade.

Yes W helps with sustainability, but I'm not going to farm in spider form. Just human form, Q to harass and zone out the enemy. Q in human form then Q in spider IMO.


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Mephistofeles666

Senior Member

02-02-2013

1) I never said to how to build elise. Never said "build her straight ap" nor "build her ap tanky". Thats another history.
2) As i said, you will yo do more damage in duels because that 8% doesnt scale, just the flat damage, so you are not losing much by not leveling q. Try it yourself. Or just read what I wrote before commenting.
3) You will not farm in spider form? You will not use your spamable q and w to farm lots of cs? You will not recover your health by using w on minions? You will just use your human form? Your call. Fell free to waste half the potential of elise.
4) W is easier to land because the real range (the one displayed+the one that the spiderling can "see" and pursue a champ) is actually higher than Q, as i explained. So, you can spam it without fearing harass.