@Riot, I want an explanation - New Ranked System is flawed.

First Riot Post
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Azroil

Junior Member

02-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by riot robolions View Post
a 10/0 start during placement may place you in gold. But as you correctly guessed, if you aren't performing at the gold level you will be matched against opponents according to elo so eventually you'll slip to going against silver level players. While you cannot get demoted from gold as long as you are active, you are not hurting matchmaking.
r you a troll?


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Azroil

Junior Member

02-06-2013

Why no one is talking about dodge taking points from u...moreover if u qulify for a series and even after winning a game u dodge the next one u gonna lose the qualifying chance...happens to me i won 4 games and get the message u qualified for a series...after that i dodge and i qualify for ****


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JamesDZH

Recruiter

02-06-2013

I was placed in Silver D5 without playing ANY PLACEMENT MATCHES.
Working on my way up hard (with lower elo teammates), but I'd like to know why I wasn't given a chance to play any placements.


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Rynac

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yegg View Post
Okay, so here's what's going on here...

Because you had only just finished your initial ten placement matches, the system was cautious and placed you into Silver I. This is a division that comprises a large range of MMRs, and you were right near the top. As to why it's a large range: think of slicing up a bell curve into chunks of equal volume (as we want each Silver division to be roughly equivalent in size); as you get further out on the curve, the chunks are wider in order to get the same number of players. Since your MMR was quite high, you were matched against Gold players, and the system was looking for you to consistently prove that you belong in Gold. When you started winning matches, since you were defeating Gold players you were given 30+ points per match, and you're now at 92 LP after only 3 wins. When/if you lose a match, you will lose probably 10 or fewer LP, so you're on track to make it to Gold quite quickly. You were never in any danger of falling down to Silver Division 2, as you would have to start losing against other Silver players before that would even be a possibility.

The reason why the system is hesitant to place players who've just finished their iniital placement matches directly into Gold is that tier changes are permanent in the league system, so there are some extra checks and balances that must be passed in order to avoid having a bunch of players stuck at the bottom of a tier they don't belong in. We were able to be slightly less cautious with players who played a lot during the preseason because they'd already demonstrated their skill level over a longer series of games.

Hope this helped! I'll check back in this thread later to answer more questions later tonight, probably in a few hours.
I have a question: how is it that this guy went 9-1 in his placement games was placed in Silver 1 but I went 7-3 in mine and got Gold 5? I highly doubt my MMR is higher than his.


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mark4505

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot RoboLions View Post
A 10/0 start during placement may place you in gold. But as you correctly guessed, if you aren't performing at the gold level you will be matched against opponents according to Elo so eventually you'll slip to going against silver level players. While you cannot get demoted from gold as long as you are active, you are not hurting matchmaking.
So basically you can be demoted from gold (ELO wise) to play against silver, bronze, or even no medal players if you lose enough.

Basically the old ELO system except this is 10x harder to climb up. I mean back then since you reached a Top Rating of 1500 for Gold or whatever you get that badge at the end of the season. This new league system you just get it earlier at the cost of fighting an uphill battle to get the Platnium now. Good job there. ಠ_ಠ


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davesmack

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot RoboLions View Post
Drawing comparisons between your teammate and opponent's divisions and the hidden Elo system is not a good path to go down because there are no assurances that their current Elo is the one they were placed with, meaning you may be matched with someone who's Elo is lower than you think.

But to specifically address your concern, if your hidden Elo is higher than expected for your division, you will earn more LP for wins and lose less LP for losses. This means you will much more quickly reach your promotion and get into the higher division/tier.

We understand that some people are frustrated that they aren't in the tier they expected, but there are no longer Elo cutoffs for certain Tiers, and you cannot lose your tier once you get it. So reaching the next tier means a lot more than it ever did. Best of luck getting there again, I'm confident you can.
I think there's something wrong with the placement even when hidden ELO is taken into account.

I was just promoted from Bronze to Silver, and struggled with the LP clamping. Eventually, I did raise my MMR past what was necessary, but it couldn't have been by that much because I was clamped on a 3 game streak, lost once, won twice, and the clamp was removed on the second win. That says to me that I just barely squeaked by the bare minimum necessary. When I was in Bronze 1, I only gained 15-20 LP a game. Now that I'm in Silver 5, I gain 20-25 a game. Basically, when I was in the top of Bronze 1 the system thought my MMR was "too low" for where I was and clamped my LP, but now that I'm in silver 5 the system thinks my MMR is too high for where I am and is boosting it in order to move me up.

The means the MMR needed to get out of Bronze 1 is actually higher than the MMR the system regards as proper for Silver 5.


All complaints about the LP clamping system (which I still think is an incredibly flawed idea despite the fact that I did manage to overcome it) aside, this discrepancy in what the system is deeming as "proper" MMR is completely ridiculous.


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TheCøøkieMonster

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by LOLOL BYE View Post
Okay, so this thread has expanded into a very helpful discussion about peoples thoughts and different scenarios within the new ranked system, my personal experience is negative, but I think we should let this turn into a discussion rather then a rant.

Below is my story, feel free to read on others and post your own so Riot can fix the system.



---------------------------- My Story ------------------

To start of, I just want to make it clear that I am mad. I just went 9-1 in my placement games (6-1 at 1551 preseason, then 9-1 this morning), meaning if the elo system was still visable, I'd be floating around 1620-1650.

Now lets talk about my last game, I played against an enemy team which composed of 3 people from Gold D3 (1650~), 1 person from Gold D1(1800~) and 1 person who was still in placement.

My team composed of All 1 Gold D3 (1650~), 3 Gold D5 (1580~), and me who was in placement. - We won this game against the odds, and after the game, I was placed into... Silver D1 (1450).

So with an elo of around 1620-1650, I'm matched into a pool of 1400s. (It gets better)
Now because I'm still being matched due to my elo, I'm going to have to fight people in Gold Tier every single match just to stay in Silver D1, and become positive for a chance to make it to Gold D5.

This is not fair.

But the good thing is, I'm still 1st in my Division, due to the fact there are only 2 players in my division...


TL;DR - Because of Placement I now have to compete with 1700s to stay in a pool with a skill level of 1400.

The community wants a reply.


EDIT: Just played my first match after officially being placed in a League (Silver 1) - My entire team and the entire enemy team were in Gold 1 (Best Division in Gold) - After a 60min drawn out match, we lost. So It's confirmed, I have to play 1700-1800s to get out of Silver. Worst ****ing ranked system ever

Meanwhile: The other person in my league is playing enemys from Silver 3, because he just hit level 30, he is now 1st in the league.


EDIT2: Now after my 9 win streak in placement games, I'm now on a losing streak at about 1700~ elo, and about to fall down to Silver D2 because I'm not good enough to carry Gold D1 games.

EDIT3:



I'm actually a lot more calm about this now, the initial panic set in that I was much lower then I was meant to be and was playing very hard competitive games, only to be at the same level as very low players. After a few more games I've realized that the LP distribution is the saving grace in this case, because my hidden elo is much higher then the average elo in my division, and I am consistently gaining a lot more then I lost, and i also didn't realize that it wasn't possible for me to fall to Silver D2 until I lost vs players at that level.

All in all, I think the system works, and I can understand why it was cautious to place me in Gold Tier and I'm glad its not letting people who 'luck' their way up into higher tiers.

Thank you for the explanation Yegg - I also hope this thread helps anybody who has confusion with the new leagues

EDIT4: I'm currently 16W 4L, constantly vsing 1780s-1850's (Every single player in the game other then me is this rating) and I'm at the bottom of Gold V, I feel demotivated to play when I have to consistently play at this level to only be recognized so low.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=3007733

VOTE FOR PREGAME VOTE KICK AND COMMENT

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=3007733


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michelada

Senior Member

02-06-2013

new ranked system it's broken, u have to play like 10-20 just to get the opportunity to be promoted to the next division , and if u fail in your promotion u will have to play more games again just to get the opportunity to try the promotion again , and if u succesful gain the pass to the next division if u had bad luck and loss 4 games in a row u will be send back to the division u were 30 games ago.

Elo system was really hard , but at least show the true positioning of each player ,the new ranked system it's frustrating cause u know that if u have a bad luck the system will punish u really hard.

Riot need to reduce the number of divisions from 5 to 3 to make the promotion for each division more rewarding , cause right now u will have to paly 100 games or more just to get a new tier bronze, silver, gold , etc. and this just in case taht u are a good player , i'm done with the new system until riot do something about it.


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Major Blackup

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Junior Member

02-06-2013

No - what isn't fair is that someone can get CARRIED through the placement games (or simply get lucky, I've seen it) and end up in gold.

Really low players end up in gold, but can NEVER lose it?

And me...I never played ranked, so my matchmaking value is terrible - but I am not a bad player. I have spent 3 days straight of TWELVE HOUR stretches trying to move up ONE bronze level. From Bronze 2 to Bronze 1.

YOU try moving up anywhere when your teammates don't even know what a ward is. I want to break my computer and this system is extremely biased and unfair.


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Runner2k

Junior Member

02-15-2013

Hello riot, so far I really like the new ranking system, but I encountered something rather unfair.

Basically I already have 2 red X's even though I just had my first match out of the 5 that is supposed to be provided, which doesn't make sense to me. (Edit: I won the first match btw, so essentially i have 1 win and 2 losses, even though I only had 1 match)

Could this possibly be a glitch? Or does it have something to do with a having 2 promotional series in a row? (lost the first one due to a rather unfortunate disconnection of my internet for two games :< oh well)