League system queue dodge penalties

First Riot Post
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Soul

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Senior Recruiter

02-01-2013

IMO, there should be no LP penalty for the first dodge of the day. Can make the 2nd and 3rd dodge lose more, that's all right.

It's because sometimes, trolls and bad picks happen. Plus, there were many instances where I was in games where people put their own smurf on the enemy team to bait a win. That's not cool.

If that happens to the team, shouldn't we have a chance to dodge without getting a penalty? These are rare occurrences but "**** happens".


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ADC SENPAl

Senior Member

02-01-2013

Thank you Riot, So sick of people dodging and evading just because the picks didn't suite them. As for the first part, I thought it was obvious that's what the trolls were doing when they locked in those champs. They want you to dodge, I never dodged for people who chose champions and put troll summoners so they could queue up in another game and do it to the next person. People need to stop it at the source, and sometimes you will lose a game because of that, but you have to remember. You are at your ELO for a reason, if I drop a couple games in a row; I don't worry I know that my rating is "x" and I will get back up there because I earned it by playing the games and getting the ELO. Most of the time, the trolls will end up dodging at the last second, if they don't take your loss, inform the other team the situation if possible, get him reported and move on. I don't think I ever hit the same troll more than once


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PeteyPiranha

Senior Member

02-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morior Invictis View Post
Some people just want to watch the world burn.

In this situation, the innocent always lose.
Thank you, Alfred.


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i will teemo

Junior Member

02-01-2013

Inb4 a game crash/internet connection makes us lose our rating. So dumb


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roninsm

Senior Member

02-01-2013

Thank you for implementing this.


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Hoggel

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Senior Member

02-01-2013

is there anything in play from someone who disconnects during champ select so it doesnt count as a dodge?


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Mïkêy

Senior Member

02-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yegg View Post
Hey all,

To start this discussion, Id like to go back in time a bit. Back in June of 2012, we announced a change to the ranked queue dodge penalty here: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2228786. It was clarified that the change was somewhat of an experiment and that we'd be making further changes if necessary. At the time, we removed Elo penalties for two reasons:

1. The Elo penalties were undermining the matchmaker and opening up abuse cases that people were very much using.
2. Queue dodging is sometimes a valid defense mechanism against toxic situations, and we didn't want to punish people too harshly for using it.

In many ways this worked out well. Players looking for easy wins could no longer dodge their way down to Elo ratings hundreds or thousands points below their skill level. Other players stuck with true griefers in their lobby could get out of that situation without any permanent penalty. These are all good things.

However, over the last 7 months it became clear that there were three undesirable side effects:

1. Trolls gained more power in champ select.
2. Players were much less willing to work together and became much more focused on what they individually wanted.
3. Some players started using queue dodging to micromanage their Elo gains and would dodge whenever they perceived the matchup to be unfavorable.

The first two above led to an increase in trolling in champ select, which in turns leads to an increase in queue dodging. Combined with the increases from the micromanaging group, its now the case that queue dodging is very common in the ranked solo queue.

You might think that I'm crazy based on the first point above. Trolls gained more power when we removed the Elo penalty? You're probably also thinking that by increasing the penalty now, we're giving trolls more power because it punishes innocent players who are trying to avoid trolls.

The key is this: most trolls want to win just as much as you do. They might believe they need a certain role to do that, or they might be annoying to interact with, but at the end of the day they generally want to win the games they queue up for. Here's a corollary: most trolls don't want to sit through a 30 minute game rocking Karma/Revive/Promote (or whatever the latest "troll picks" are) just as much as you don't want to be in the game alongside them. What they want when they troll pick is for you to dodge for them, because then they'll get another lobby and they might get the role they want. Think back to the days when there was a 10 Elo penalty for dodging. There was much less troll picking in champ select for one simple reason: it often didn't work. If no one dodges, everyone on the team loses, and no individual wanted to dodge and lose Elo, so everyone was compelled to cooperate more. But with the removal of the Elo penalty, it was almost guaranteed that someone would dodge, and once it was clear that troll picking and/or threatening "X or feed" worked, more players starting doing it.

So here's how the penalties work now that the League System is active:

* Dodging in the ranked solo queue will trigger a 6 minute lockout and will deduct 3 League Points (LP).
* Dodging in ranked solo if you've dodged recently will trigger a 30 minute lockout and will deduct 10 LP.
* Dodging a ranked team game will trigger a 1 minute lockout and will deduct 10 LP from the team.
* Dodging in ranked teams if you've dodged recently will trigger a 60 minute lockout and will still deduct 10 LP from the team.
* Dodging during a Promotion or Division series will cancel the series, so you'll have to get back to 100 LP to start another series (likely just one game away, unless you had already lost a couple series games).

Now that League Points are on the line, there's much more incentive for everyone on the team to work together and try to reach a positive consensus on champions and roles. The number of League Points lost is small enough that it's not a huge setback if a dodge does happen, but it's big enough that players will think twice about dodging just because they don't like the matchup or didn't get their role. Taking away League Points does not tell the matchmaker that you're worse at the game, which means the penalty is no longer opening up abuse cases or leading to unfair matches. We've also greatly shortened the time penalties, and almost completely removed them from ranked team dodges, because it sucks when everyone has to wait around for a teammate's dodge penalty to wear off. In general, our goal here is to reduce the amount of time that it takes you to get a game started by reducing the number of failed lobbies.

As with many changes that we make these days, this is an experiment. We'll be monitoring the effects, both in terms of queue dodge rates and also in terms of the feedback that you all give us on the forums. I'll personally be reading all of the replies in this thread even if I don't have a chance to reply to them.
What if you get trolls in the provisional or placement matches, that'd suck tbh =\


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LordGwaihir

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Senior Member

02-01-2013

So i guess they are banking on the fact that Tribunal has scared people straight enough we can go back to the old way of punishing dodges? I remember those days, and i don't look on them fondly at all.

S3 is shaping up to be a boiling pot, new ELO system has us playing more games with more emphasis on winning key games for advancement, and now throw in punishable dodges...god the stress is going to cause people to crack and lash out at each other over the smallest of things.


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worst adc ever

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Senior Member

02-01-2013

I have experienced a situation where the last pick was afking through champion selection resulting in getting a randomly picked champion. Would it be fair for my team to loose League Points simply for not wanting to risk playing a 4v5 while the afk player receive no punishment?


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innervation

Senior Member

02-01-2013

Awesome! Thank you - this was much needed.