How often do you play Twitch

All the time 5 13.89%
Frequently 4 11.11%
Sometimes 4 11.11%
Rarely 5 13.89%
Never 18 50.00%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

Feedback on Twitch

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Ferretanica

Member

12-03-2009

My main issue with Twitch is the fact that, in his early game when he racks up 6-7 kills, he becomes fed to all hell. His lifesteal shoots through the roof, and he becomes near unkillable for everyone else. Most people at this point scream "BUT FERRET, MAYBE YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE FED HIM????????". To which I respond, "Yes, that's a great idea. It's the execution of said idea that is a problem." The main factor here is that, in early game, there's nothing to counter a rat that pops out of thin air and poisons you to death. Therefore, Twitch quickly becomes overpowered, and soon carries the entire team.

I have found that playing a double snare team (Morganna + Ryze/Blizzcrank) can keep him down if you make sure he dies as much as possible early game. This also leads to you being fed, and therefore defeats the entire concept of a "balanced" game.

Anyway, it's late. I'm tired. Good night.


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Xionis

Senior Member

12-03-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferretanica View Post
The main factor here is that, in early game, there's nothing to counter a rat that pops out of thin air and poisons you to death.
Wards cost 150g, I believe you start with 475. If 1 person in each lane takes a ward, no lane with be without twitch protection. For 450g (one person could buy all 3 wards from start see, if other teammates are really **** about that regen pendant.) Hold on to the ward for maybe a level or two if you see Twitch is just creeping, not trying to get kills. Soon as he starts invising, pop it down where it can keep you safe.


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Ferretanica

Member

12-03-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xionis View Post
Wards cost 150g, I believe you start with 475. If 1 person in each lane takes a ward, no lane with be without twitch protection. For 450g (one person could buy all 3 wards from start see, if other teammates are really **** about that regen pendant.) Hold on to the ward for maybe a level or two if you see Twitch is just creeping, not trying to get kills. Soon as he starts invising, pop it down where it can keep you safe.
I lied about sleep. **** you for responding in a timely fashion.

The issue there is that I can't always sacrifice 150g early game, and it's not as if the issue starts and ends at a definite point. To say that a ward will last me throughout an entire early game phase is pushing it a little bit too much. The main point wasn't so much the invisibility as the invisibility with the poison. If there were no poison, I wouldn't care about the invisibility. If there were no invisibility, I wouldn't care as much about the poisons. It is the poisons that allow Twitch to kill early game. Escaping to the towers does nothing as it would with other heroes. The damage is already done by the time you escape, and death is almost assured.

I really am going to bed, but please respond. I'd like to hear from the other side of the argument.


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YAMAKASI SENSEI

Senior Member

12-03-2009

twitch is the most op of the game, they should ban him. Ok first if twitch the 50% attack speed with life steath and it stack up his speed attack is 2.5(full), buy some attack damage then u can kill anyone far range, close range, i was in game with him about 2min ago, oh man is there some bug on him?, he killed every one in 3 hit, right in the tower, i was playing jax pwned him few times but only with my team mate in the end of the game which around 45min, i killed 15 ppl, twitch killed 30 how that possible? man he definitely over power in begining, mid, or end game who know how to use his op will win no matter what.( I killed all of his team mate no problem he killed five of us alone no problem )


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Xionis

Senior Member

12-04-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by yamakasisensei View Post
twitch is the most op of the game, they should ban him. Ok first if twitch the 50% attack speed with life steath and it stack up his speed attack is 2.5(full), buy some attack damage then u can kill anyone far range, close range, i was in game with him about 2min ago, oh man is there some bug on him?, he killed every one in 3 hit, right in the tower, i was playing jax pwned him few times but only with my team mate in the end of the game which around 45min, i killed 15 ppl, twitch killed 30 how that possible? man he definitely over power in begining, mid, or end game who know how to use his op will win no matter what.( I killed all of his team mate no problem he killed five of us alone no problem )
Having played AS and played AGAINST Twitch, I'm going to guess 2 things from this post:

1) You are trolling. Back under your bridge.

2) You have no clue how to actually handle Twitch at any point in the game.

Twitch is so squishy it's almost sad if it weren't so exploitable, almost any dps in the game can kill him in a matter of a few hits on even footing (level/items). The PROBLEM people have is Twitch players KNOW that, so they don't engage on even footing, they gank, they kill people who venture too far out alone and low hp. A good Twitch player is constantly checking their minimap looking for enemy heros all by themselves, or a small skirmish between equal numbers of heros, then checking their hp to assess a gank possibility.

As for not being able to spare 150g in the early game...why? If it prevents Twitch (or Eve) from mauling you and ruining your late game, it will have saved you FAR more. I generally buy a health pendant as my first item (I play tanks usually) but if I see an enemy Eve or Twitch at load screen, I will grab a few health potions and a ward or 2 instead. It has little effect on my overall build (200 gold can be gotten on one trip through the jungle easy on most heros), and it frustrates the hell out of stealth players. I keep an eye on my minimap, and as long as Twitch or Eve are still laning, I hold on to the wards. Soon as they are gone for a good period, or they gank a teammate (or myself), down go the wards.

Edit: Reread what OP responded with so putting in a few points I missed.

Yes, 1 ward will not last you the whole laning phase usually. 2 might cover most of it. I personally think the anti-stealth items are underpowered at the moment for their cost, I'd like to see 5 min wards minimum for 150g. However, that 150-300g (450g if you have a really long laning phase) will go a helluva lot farther towards helping you win the game if it prevents Twitch from feeding. And in many cases, a team that confronts a Twitch with stealth detection at every turn will cause those Twitch players to quit, because they get so frustrated (have had this happen in several games, with Eve as well).


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blackwhitehawk

Member

12-04-2009

Twiches ult can hit a ward as long as he has minions or a champ to shoot at.


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alcapowned

Senior Member

12-06-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwhitehawk View Post
Twiches ult can hit a ward as long as he has minions or a champ to shoot at.
Well if your a champion , just move so his Line of Fire isn't going over the ward. Also how many minions can take 500 damage and live? (Ward has 500 hp i believe, and is immune to magic)

Thus it would require two Twitch ultimates(120ish seconds i think) that were very well placed to kill the ward. Also , if you see Twitch immobile and in a position to Spray and Pray onto your ward , why not do anything about it? He just used his ultimate and is out of stealth and relatively near your ward... KILL HIM!


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GarwooD

Member

12-06-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcapowned View Post
Lets dissect your argument...

a) Twitchs deadly poison requires 6 attacks to get it to become a full stack and even then only does 36 damage per second(max stack) for i believe 5 seconds at max level... This is not NEARLY as much as a champion regular ability(Nunu's snowball , Overload, Parley, Powerball... Basically every nuke)

b) Debilitating Poison is meant to work in the sense that it takes stacks of poison for it to become a powerful slow. If you are moving faster than Twitch can follow , then it becomes hard for him to slow you. If you are running at the same speed as Twitch , Twitch can only get 1 stack of poison , which results in a 30% slow... If you were suprised by Twitch and he was right under you... Most heros can kill Twitch 1v1 unless you were low hp(or he was fed). If you were low hp.. you deserved to die for not noticing MIA's and staying in the lane


c) Targeting a spell(excluding skill shots such as Ashe's ultimate or Morganas snare) isnt really difficult if your not a complete ******. It also only does 150+60x , where x is the amount of poison stacks. This amounts to a maximum of 510 damage if you have max stacks., then it is subjected to magic resistance which lowers it even more. 510 damage is not even close to what most normal champions can nuke for(instantly, not requiring 6 attacks)

d) Twitch has the lowest survivability(hp/mr/armour) in the game. Stealth is the only means in which he can survive and truly assasinate people. Taking away his stealth would make him nearly impossible to play.

E) Not seeing a problem... You can dodge the ultimate by moving diagonally away or to Twitch... Learn tostrafe and stop right clicking on enemy champions as the primary means to attack.

f) Being able to see Twitch in stealth means you can move back and not die. It also means you know he is there , so you can play more conservatively... not chase enemy champions. It also means you and your teammate can conduct a gank and kill him , because he doesnt know you can see him.

g) There is a backdoor mechanic that makes towers extremely strong to backdoor attacks. It would take a mid geared Twitch 5 or some ultimates to completely backdoor a tower... Also... In the time Twitch isnt helping his team with his ultimate , you can just roll through his base.

P.S. the arguement that he is squishy is silly. as you and I know having played him myself you can just buy a warmongs or another health item and get around that. I mean he farms like a machine any way not like its hard to get money with him. His only weakness is CC but that's every ones weakness ('cept pirate ofc)
WHAT THE **** IS WRONG WITH YOU HERE?
Twitch has the lowest hp/armour/magic resist in the game... "AS you and I know" is a ****ing poorly pathetic arguement. Also why the **** on earth would you get a Warmogs. Warmogs is hp and regen... Trying to play Twitch so ******ed. It completely destroys his dps and farming potential by giving him lots of hp. Twitch doesn't even have tank abilities. If you wanted to tank , at least get Banshee's Veil , because that has some reasoning behind it.

Also... He "farms like a machine" because he is ranged and has invis? Tons of heroes are ranged , so only his invis poses a problem. There are these nice items called Oracle Elixirs and Vision Wards. Pitching a bit of gold to be able to disrupt Twitchs farming, aswell as his kills(he needs element of suprise, or he needs to gank) is worth WAY more then 150gold. Also , not dying to a Twitch gank is > 150gold.

"His only weakness is CC" but thats everyones weakness? Erm no... not quite... All people are susceptible to CCs... But often most heroes have a good amount of base hp + hp gain to survive crowd controls. Twitch does not, if he leaves his stealth , and gets disabled , he is most likely dead before he can shift back into stealth. If you observe Twitchs hp compared to other champions(Dps ones like Ashe or Yi) you'll notice a HUGE gap in health points(excluding items)
first off read the line that says "I DONT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ANY OF THAT" as you may have noticed I dont care that he can kill people with stealth attacks. thats what makes him an assassin and they can leave all that stuff in as far as i'm concerned. but a few points here:

A) is a reference to how powerful a passive/inate it is. is prolly most useful of all the innate skills that heroes have.

B) I know how debilitating poison works and it does slow alot. If you are having a problem putting 3 or more stacks of venom on champion after you come out of stealth then maybe you shouldnt bother responding like your some kind of Twitch authority. and avoiding stacks of poison when facing twitch (unstealthed) is like saying dont fight him at all and leave him alone.

C) targeting is not in reference to its "difficulty" its in reference to the fact that you dont have to break attacking to cast it and will still hit them even if the ran around a corner or into brush. unlike nunu, annie, etc... where they have to see you, be in range, and break attack (stop) for cast animation

D) i didnt say take away his stealth. I said it wouldnt affect how i play him. I could easily go the whole game without stealthing if it didnt take away his attack speed buff. It's prolly best in the future to read the whole thing instead of nitpicking and trying to find some thing to argue about.

E) I never said there was any problem. I was merely stating that hes longest range in the game. and the ease of which he can shrug off any minions that would come to bother him while attacking heroes.

F) i was merely stating that "seeing" twitch doesnt really do anything. if you flop down a ward he will see you do it and act accordingly if hes decent. if you have oracle he can still gank you since champion sight is about the same as twitched attack range.

but like i said I dont care about any of the above metioned things and i think they are all fine. its fits his play style and makes him unique. the only exception is him being able to backdoor with out any feasible way to stop it.

G) 4 evenly geared heroes can easily hold off all 5 of other team if they defending by a tower. He can sneak around all he wants and kill your towers ,with his super range, while other team is either stifled by the other 4 heroes or just out doing anything else. if they are gonna leave this cheap exploit in game then inhibitor tower's should regen making you have to put them under constant pressure. As far as i know the only mechanic in place is the fact that the other towers in front of it in lane have to be destoyed first. And i'll restate i'm not saying take away his range ultimate or what ever, I'm saying make his ultimate not hit towers like 99% of every one else abilities.

buying a warmong or another health item is in reference to his squishyness. not meaning tank him out but to alievate his inability to take hits. you cant have a infinty edge and bloodtirster AND warmongs? and you dont have to be a D-bag about it by saying what the **** is wrong with you. you coulda just looked to the obvious meaning instead of picking some off the wall idea that was obviously not its intention.

he farms like a machine refers to the ease of which he can get last hits on creeps with out even trying. poison will kill them when you arent even watching i.e. you can just area attack and get over half the kills if you solo with out having to pay attention to last hitting. also can easily stack up poison on nuetral creeps and kill them rather quickly.

every ones weakness is CC *fact* him not having as good as HP growth as other heroes does not make him any more suceptible to CC than anyone else. to be honest he has stealth so he maybe slightly less effected by CC since he can stealth and sit invisible while stunned if he got far enough away.


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alcapowned

Senior Member

12-07-2009

In response to Garwood , I've actually been trying to cut down on playing Twitch and playing other more competitive champions because I'm trying to get into a competitive clan. During the clan tryouts , everyone on their team had a vision ward in their lane and by the 30 minute mark their tank(rammus) had an oracle and they stood together in a tight pack. That is the kind of play that makes assassin champions un-viable(realword?) in games.
I couldn't get any kills because I couldn't sneak behind the champions , and because the team was competent they called missing as soon as I stealthed and the other lanes backed up into their wards.

tl;dr Twitch -> easy to stomp noobs who dont know how to play but extremely difficult to versus good players. Its also why Riot made him cost 6300( Legendary ) , as on in the thread "Champion Rotation Announced" it explains that Legendary champions are the more difficult to play ones. You just believe its easy because you stomp noobs with Twitch.


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GarwooD

Member

12-07-2009

@ alcapowned
well i geuss you dont bother to read anything I typed. I dont make any reference to how easy it is to kill champions or noobs with him. Even though he can and thats fine because thats his focus.

a couple points.

were wards in all 3 lanes every 3 and 1/2 minutes? just on one spot in each lane or the whole lane in every lane? Because thats a lot of cheddar for their team to be dishing out, i bet they were prolly way under geared by end game.

running in tight packs? (I would geuss they would be encircling Rammus) Well heres a tip from one twitch player to another: come up behind them with stealth. Use spray and pay (prolly get at least 3 stacks of poison on all of them if not more if they all on top of each other). when any of them turn to face you use debiltating poison slowing them considerably. when any start to get with in their CC radius start retreating and kick on stealth again. Use expunge and maybe kill a few or seriously damage enough of them where they have to run from your team. if you had Tiamat they prolly all dead or hurting alot. dont really have to worry about that oracle on rammus since he can see you anywhere out side his radius, unless they kept even more wards in the bushes around the lanes as well but at 30+ minutes into the game if they kept that many wards up constantly they are atleast behind 8k in gold which means they prolly rather squishy or hit like big marshmellows (from lack of gear).

but to restate AGAIN, I have no problem with him being able to kill heroes, stealth, or any of that.

him being able to back door with out any counter is dumb and should be taken away. not gonna rehash said argument for this read my other posts for reasons.


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