How to put Nasus back in top lane

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iueras

Senior Member

02-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanthalis View Post
Almost always is better to go for IBG. FH and TF are still good on him. TF got a price buff this patch, but to be honest I feel Nasus only built TF since he had a Sheen and LichBane isn't a real option for him. The only thing he really loses from not building TF is the move speed. The AD isn't needed since his damage comes from farmed Q, the AP helps his E and R, but IBG has AP. Crit is wasted. Mana is fine with FH, HP is always good, crit is a total waste.

Plus if you get FH and SV your CDR is at 35% which makes it hard to cap without wasting some. With Gauntlet, SV and either Shurelia's or Locket you max it out perfectly.

Also keep in mind a few other tops have been nerfed so they're not so harsh to deal with or the damage done to them sticks better, like the Riven HP regen nerf. These types of changes indirectly help Nasus.
That all makes a lots of sense. I never built SV on him in S2, so I was going FH and shurelia plus 4% cdr mastery for 39% but that obviously doesn't work now.

You say crit is totally wasted... his Q can crit since it is an aa enhancer. Or do you just mean that the 10 crit strike on TF was wasted without stacking up more (which you can't really do)?

The more I look at it the more I am liking the gauntlet on him. I think I'll give this a run later today.


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BlazingSalvo

Senior Member

02-01-2013

I would love if his model size was increased (he looks so tiny compared to other champs like even Jayce or Vi... O_o) and then they gave him 175 range like Xin, Nautilus, and Fizz.

If anything give him 175 range when ulting. As of right now he only gets +25. 150 total. By comparison, Max stacks (Rank 3 Feast) cho gets 175.

Another problem with Nasus is he lacks any actual AD scaling. He scales almost purely with farm instead of items. While a 40 CDR Nasus is somewhat useful in a teamfight even though his Q farm is shutdown, and the longer he lives with his ult active the more damage he can deal, without that farm on his Q he is closer and closer to useless compared to his enemy toplaner with the same gold.

Veigar's Q mechanic is a beat weaker overall, but Veigar 1. scales VERY well on items/AP even without using his Q at all, and 2. doesn't have to last hit a champion as he gets 1-5 AP per kill regardless of how he kills them.

Nasus needs some form of scaling. If he buys 2 Doran's Blades to sustain in lane, he gets flat damage to his autos and Q and *that's it". He is not rewarded for buying items. His only option is to build CDR and tankiness and hope he can farm without dying. There's no real motivation for him to build any early game items, unless you're randomly way ahead and just AD will do it.
If a Nasus has 2 doran's blades, a Vamp scepter, and a phage, he is generally much weaker than Jayce, Darius, Jax, Vi, etc. with the same items.

Nasus's theme is that of draining energy from his opponents. His entire kit - Lifesteal, Q farming, Wither, AOE armor shred, and ultimate AD-HP suction: Everything in his kit is themed around Nasus getting stronger while he makes his opponents weaker. His Q should get passive gold per champion kill regardless of how you kill them similar to Veigar. Or something creative could be done like having his E grant him part of his enemy's armor in return or vamp some of the damage, or tone down wither and let it give him attack speed/movement speed in return like Malphite's slow. Anything could happen, doesn't matter what it is, but he shouldn't only be able to farm his damage with last hits. His kit just screams with potential.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iueras View Post
You say crit is totally wasted... his Q can crit since it is an aa enhancer. Or do you just mean that the 10 crit strike on TF was wasted without stacking up more (which you can't really do)?
The bonus damage can't crit, so you only take advantage of Nasus's base AD, the AD from trinity, and the AD from Nasus ult. Nasus as of now doesn't scale well on Attack Speed, Critical Strike, or AP. Trinity has a lot of wasted stats and is really only there to give Nasus an extra 50 affective farm on his Q at the end of the game (you can achieve trinity proc through better Q farming). Going full tank with CDR earlier or buying actual damage will give you more damage than Trinity on average. Actually, a Bloodthirster would give you more damage on every autoattack *and* Q as well as give you tons of lifesteal.
Other champions that build Trinity at least have some AD ratio like Hecarim, Skarner, and Jax. Nasus literally only gets the proc. A champion like Xin Zhao not only gets a large amount of bonus damage on his Q, but he also has a 1.2 ratio on it. Garen's decisive strike is 1.4. Nasus's Q is only a swing reset with bonus damage, nothing more. If it has, say, at least a 1.1 ratio you could at least decide to build something like BotRK or Bloodthirster and be rewarded for your investment.


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Xanthalis

Senior Member

02-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by iueras View Post
That all makes a lots of sense. I never built SV on him in S2, so I was going FH and shurelia plus 4% cdr mastery for 39% but that obviously doesn't work now.

You say crit is totally wasted... his Q can crit since it is an aa enhancer. Or do you just mean that the 10 crit strike on TF was wasted without stacking up more (which you can't really do)?

The more I look at it the more I am liking the gauntlet on him. I think I'll give this a run later today.
Definitely get a few games in with him. Boots, Gauntlet, SV, Locket/Shurelia's are core. Then go to town after that. Any tank item is good, Warmogs, Sunfire, Mecurials Scimitar, Randuin's or Bulwark as Needed. LW and/or Hydra for some late game damage.

I'm still going back and forth on summoner's spells. I tend towards ghost and teleport. I've tried flash and teleport and let Shurelia's active work as my ghost, but TBH having 2 activated move speeds on him fits him better.

I only say crit is wasted since he doesn't stack crit, take crit related masteries, or build IE.


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iueras

Senior Member

02-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanthalis View Post
Definitely get a few games in with him. Boots, Gauntlet, SV, Locket/Shurelia's are core. Then go to town after that. Any tank item is good, Warmogs, Sunfire, Mecurials Scimitar, Randuin's or Bulwark as Needed. LW and/or Hydra for some late game damage.

I'm still going back and forth on summoner's spells. I tend towards ghost and teleport. I've tried flash and teleport and let Shurelia's active work as my ghost, but TBH having 2 activated move speeds on him fits him better.

I only say crit is wasted since he doesn't stack crit, take crit related masteries, or build IE.
Damn you, I just got Vi and now you are making me want to go play Nasus again


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Xanthalis

Senior Member

02-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by iueras View Post
Damn you, I just got Vi and now you are making me want to go play Nasus again
Just gonna leave this right here

http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=...us-build-guide

He makes a good point in there, though I don't think it came into play as Riot intended. If they can make the jungle balance out to where ganking vs farming is a real decision, that will help Nasus.

I got Vi too, just this week. She rocks. Just remember Nasus still is prone to counters and harass early on, more so than most champs. Just not as bad as he was. If you're doing draft or ranked and the match up doesn't look promising, rock out a Vi game instead!


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iueras

Senior Member

02-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanthalis View Post
Just gonna leave this right here

http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=...us-build-guide

He makes a good point in there, though I don't think it came into play as Riot intended. If they can make the jungle balance out to where ganking vs farming is a real decision, that will help Nasus.

I got Vi too, just this week. She rocks. Just remember Nasus still is prone to counters and harass early on, more so than most champs. Just not as bad as he was. If you're doing draft or ranked and the match up doesn't look promising, rock out a Vi game instead!
Oh yeah. Hyfe was the guy that inspired me to get Nasus. His CDR build worked out really well for a while, till the influx of resourceless supertops.

Vi is easily the most fun I've had in a jungle in a loong time.


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SlayerofAsmodean

Senior Member

02-01-2013

Nasus shouldn't win top lane. He wasn't designed to be strong in lane, and he shouldn't be.

Nasus should never, ever win lane because if he does, its pretty much game over already due to his crazy scaling.


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Xanthalis

Senior Member

02-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlayerofAsmodean View Post
Nasus shouldn't win top lane. He wasn't designed to be strong in lane, and he shouldn't be.

Nasus should never, ever win lane because if he does, its pretty much game over already due to his crazy scaling.
Was closing out my browser as I pack up to leave work, noticed I had this thread still opened and just wanted to say I like your name. I'm reading the series from start to finish, just go to The Great Hunt. I've 1-9 twice, but never read the rest.


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NadalKenlyl

Senior Member

02-01-2013

Nasus problem has always been how easily he is kited. His kit is very strong if he can reach ANYONE, but there are many many many more ways to kite him around with slows and cc than when he was released. Even with Wither, he doesn't have a lot of sticking power in my experience, with the amount of cc that has been added into the game.


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chumbler

Senior Member

02-01-2013

Step 1: Give up his Q so they can improve him elsewhere.