Alright riot why remove HoG?

First Riot Post
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cryte

Senior Member

02-01-2013

R.I.P Heart of Gold, which was a turtle shell.


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Pushover

Senior Member

02-01-2013

The other part of this is that Sight Stone takes a larger investment than HoG did (HoG provided ~500g worth of health, so you spent 325g for the GP10, versus this you spend 425g)

That being said, I think sightstone is currently undervalued as a snowballing item to invade the other team's jungle with your lead in lane.


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KarlWayneJenkins

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Senior Member

02-01-2013

HoG was too good at snowballing top lane. Its a great item for support, but when someone like Olaf built it, it made the lane awful for the player that didn't get it. You couldn't engage into someone with HoG if they got it early enough because they would win an all in and then they scaled harder than you could deal with.


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tisin

Senior Member

02-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
I'm trying to think of a valid analogy here but I apologize if this doesn't make a whole lot of sense due to how late it is and as usual, that means I'm going to use a Magic: The Gathering analogy. :P

Let's say you have a 3/3 creature out on the table compared to a 2/2 creature that gains +2/+2 for every consecutive turn he hasn't attacked and loses them all when he attacks.

On the one hand, the 3/3 creature looks better in every respect - until you are in a situation where you don't or can't attack.

However, in the other case, the 2/2 creature that grows is just continuously better if it's a situation where you don't or can't attack.

This is essentially the core dichotomy of Sightstone versus Heart of Gold - While the Sightstone is tremendously gold efficient, it is only generating gold if you are actively using and aggressively warding on cooldown / base backs.

While Heart of Gold is generating advantage for you no matter what you do, Sightstone forces you to take additional actions to translate to gold efficiency. If you only use Sightstone as a replacement ward for your lane - it's not very gold efficient at all compared to buying 3 or 4 wards for example.

Sorry, that was terrible.

TL;DR - disliked the passive advantage that HoG was giving from taking inaction - while Sightstone doesn't actually generate gold top-lane unless used aggressively to ward more than just the top lane.
A epic fail indeed. in the end of day, Heart of Gold still a much better item to get....


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

02-01-2013
2 of 2 Riot Posts

Quote:
A epic fail indeed. in the end of day, Heart of Gold still a much better item to get....
Yes, generally overpowered items are better to get than more balanced ones.


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Mhm916

Senior Member

02-01-2013

Probably because it's aiming towards top lane champs. Top lane champs can afford to stack these early and get gold advantage+snowball but almost no champs on top(if any) would ever consider rushing the sightstones.


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timtwins

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Senior Member

02-01-2013

Heart of gold was too good on champs that weren't supports. Sightstone isn't like that.


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batosia95136

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Senior Member

02-01-2013

Only problem I have with the lack of HoG is that it allows some supports to get double gold generation items and benefit from both (kages and philo)

But if I want to go support nasus, I can only get a philostone.


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Spew

Member

02-01-2013

@Xypherous Iv'e got an idea, There should be a ruby sightone upgrade, where you can build it into an active effect where you get CV. :O


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ExjK

Senior Member

02-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
I'm trying to think of a valid analogy here but I apologize if this doesn't make a whole lot of sense due to how late it is and as usual, that means I'm going to use a Magic: The Gathering analogy. :P

Let's say you have a 3/3 creature out on the table compared to a 2/2 creature that gains +2/+2 for every consecutive turn he hasn't attacked and loses them all when he attacks.

On the one hand, the 3/3 creature looks better in every respect - until you are in a situation where you don't or can't attack.

However, in the other case, the 2/2 creature that grows is just continuously better if it's a situation where you don't or can't attack.

This is essentially the core dichotomy of Sightstone versus Heart of Gold - While the Sightstone is tremendously gold efficient, it is only generating gold if you are actively using and aggressively warding on cooldown / base backs.

While Heart of Gold is generating advantage for you no matter what you do, Sightstone forces you to take additional actions to translate to gold efficiency. If you only use Sightstone as a replacement ward for your lane - it's not very gold efficient at all compared to buying 3 or 4 wards for example.

Sorry, that was terrible.

TL;DR - disliked the passive advantage that HoG was giving from taking inaction - while Sightstone doesn't actually generate gold top-lane unless used aggressively to ward more than just the top lane.
I love your reference to Magic. =)

While I understand the intention behind removing HoG and adding Sightstone, what I would really want to know is why Riot felt HoG was so bad that it had to be removed completely. With all the pricing changes to health items overall in S3, I could see the HoG being a well balanced Gp10 option for support, jungle and top laners. It can't be any better than buying a Philo. =\