True/False Kog(AP) is the 2nd strongest champion in Dominion right now

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ricedream5

Senior Member

01-31-2013

So, I've been trolling low-elo dominion with Mpen-Tank-Kog'maw again for a bit recently after BFT Teemos wrecked my elo a month back, and I'm still thinking that Kog is really op when you build Tears, Guise/BFT, maybe Void, and then go all out on CDR/Defensive items. If you run 9-0-21 with cdr/level glyphs, then BFT alone will get the CDR close to 40%. I think I have ~80% win rate with Kog when I'm not trolling with an assassin Kog build (Dfg, r-e-q-r = instagib fun).

Let's look at this Kog ultimate at level 16: 360 base damage to champions, .6s cd when cdr is maxed. This is basically lategame ADC dps except:
1. It has 2200 range and is AOE.
2. You don't actually have to spend much gold for the dps.
Combine that with arguably the best slow in the game that IMO is stronger than most snares, you have surprisingly good CC (and tbh I think ad Kog should max E first as well since 1 point in W is enough to outrange other carries already and % health early is negligible compared to the damage ability). Also Q makes it so that you don't necessarily need void, although void is incredibly amazing, and W still makes auto attacks tickle a bit. With void, lategame you're doing 700+ dps to squishies and bruisers, 500+dps to tanks. So this massive damage is only after 16, but do realize that when built this way, Kog is stronger than when built ADC in damage/resilience at all phases of the game, with clearly more damage early/mid game and arguably more damage even lategame as well due to AOE, especially if there's an Ori, Darius, Diana on the team.

The key to this though is that since you don't have to invest much in damage to do by far the most damage on your team, you can build extremely tanky. Ideally if you play perfectly, you shouldn't need to build tanky, but there's a lot of times where you have to take some damage for the team and prevent yourself from getting zoned. You can easily go for 4k+ Hp with Roa/Guise/Sweeper/Rylai.

If you look at counters, there's basically Kass (sigh), and Maokai (trololol you healed me. but you can ignore Maokai and focus on something else). Since you're building almost full tank and counterbuilding appropriately, you can 1v1 basically almost everyone else and win by a large margin. I especially love trolling ALL Adcs/Xins/Jaxs/Wukongs/Jarvans with a Thornmail. At this point, in any teamfight if they send a squishy assassin after you, chances are they're just gonna die instead. If they send a tank, the Kog'maw can just ignore whatever damage the tank is doing and still focus down squishies from 2200 range. Regardless, Kog will deal tons of damage in any teamfight, and generally will be able to choose any target.

As for objectives control, it's pretty clear that the ultimate and E are amazing waveclear abilities, and can interrupt any cap from a nice distance. His poke can really end fights before they even begin as well. His jungle presence isn't as awesome the other cheesecake tier champions, but his ult can check bushes on a short cd from a safe range, and that's pretty awesome. Later on, the Kog-ganks are also surprisingly effective and hilarious. The E slow basically covers the entire botlane and lasts 4 seconds, not reduced by Tenacity or anything. More importantly, any enemy can be easily chased down even if they dash through the slow with R.

EDIT: Oh, the negative that I forgot the mention: you do have to land skillshots, though they are quite easy with smartcast. And your eyes will get tired after a few games.


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MyDeadGrandma

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Quote:
Let's look at this Kog ultimate at level 16: 360 base damage to champions, .6s cd when cdr is maxed. This is basically lategame ADC dps except:
1. It has 2200 range and is AOE.
2. You don't actually have to spend much gold for the dps.
3. It's avoidable, and delayed by minimum casting animation, and late game adc damage crits for around 800.

I enjoy playing Kog, both ad and ap, but lets not pretend you can start tear and bft and call yourself a tank.


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PotatoBattery

Junior Member

01-31-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyDeadGrandma View Post
3. It's avoidable, and delayed by minimum casting animation, and late game adc damage crits for around 800.

I enjoy playing Kog, both ad and ap, but lets not pretend you can start tear and bft and call yourself a tank.
It's avoidable, but not hard to hit at all unless *all* they're doing is dodging, especially since they're probably 50% slowed. As for lategame adc, if you assume 300 AD (LW, Sanguine, IE), 1.4 AS(PD), 55% crit chance with 250% crit damage, that approximates to 750 single target dps.

And no, tear/bft does not make you a tank. But Tear, BFT, Thornmail, Odyn, FH?


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PotatoBattery

Junior Member

01-31-2013

bleh


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konfetarius

Senior Member

01-31-2013

1. This will never be anywhere near "the strongest champion" because this build early game is pure, unadulterated arse. AP Kog'Maw is one of the most 11/16 level breakpoint reliant heroes in the game, if not the most reliant. He is also very item hungry (you need to stop and farm often).

2. Your item order is wrong. You need to build tanky first, damage later. AP Kog'Maw in the style you outlined relies on scaling the absurd stats of R with mana/mpen/CDR. The R suck at the first point, you might as well be multiplying tissue paper. Build tanky, get in people's faces, let your early game Pantheons and whatnot do the damage while your opponents tunnel vision into you.

The rest seems fine. I personally wouldn't go Rylai (I like mpen on all my rune slots and I find glacial is a nice, cost efficient CDR/armor/mana boost early), but w/e.


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inFe eD

Senior Member

01-31-2013

^ THE MAD HAS ARRIVED. lT WAS FORETOLD.


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ricedream5

Senior Member

01-31-2013

There is a giant step at level 11, but I feel like the early sustained damage is actually *mediocre-good* compared to an adc. After all, if you land two ults at level 6, that's the same damage as an ezreal ult if you think about it, right? And that only takes you 2s.


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konfetarius

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Mediocre-good compared to an ADC is hardly notable. And Ezreal is a bit more devastating early game compared to your run of the mill ADC.

I mean, another major aspect of my preference for manatank, that even if W first with fast mpen Kog'maw damage is respectable, what is not respectable is that you are a complete glass cannon Kog'Maw in range for retaliation by everything that has a good early game. Xin Zhao will literally walk up and kill you in 1 rotation, etc. Level 6 Kog'Maw R range is actually not that fantastic. Neither is your mana pool. Nor is your damage.

Plus, rushing tanky mana items like Catalyst(RoA)/Glacial means you can charge tear faster (by casting spells enroute) and turn it into Murmana faster.


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

02-01-2013

Actually the key to AP Kog is magic penetration and Blackfire torch.

The AP ratio of R is 0.2 which really sucks. It is NOT multiplied by 225% or whatever.

So your base 360 dmg at 16 you do? You'd need 1800 AP to double it!

AP is still good for Puke Carpet and even your Q, but Im saying it is secondary.

BFT does the 3.3% which vs a 3k foe is 100 damage added. Thats like 500 AP worth of damage added to his Ult!

Therefore its all about getting dem Sorc Shoes and dat BFT and a Void Staff so that you can inflict as much of the heavy Base damage as you can.

From there, your priorities are Movespeed (sweeper great for this), survivability, CDR (see sweeper), and enough mana/regen to be able to keep up the barrage for a decent amount of time. It goes up to TEN freaking stacks of punishment now (400mana per shot), so only short bursts are really doable.


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konfetarius

Senior Member

02-01-2013

It's .3 AP ratio, actually.

Really, though, only thing "bad" about the ratio is that AP is relatively inefficient compared to mpen/cdr for DPS scaling. Compare it to other spammy long range skills - their cooldown:AP ratio are almost always inferior (Karthus Q is the only one that's better; you could also say Cass, but Cass's E is unique in that it doesn't scale with CDR, at all). Not to mention, if something reaches you to be in range of Q, you essentially have a 1.7 AP rotation with just 1 R hit. Throw in the shred from Q, and a W auto or two, AP Kog has very reasonable burst for his AP investment.


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