Entropy on Jayce

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Volandum

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Armour Pen is better the closer you can get people to 0. Compare the % increase in damage of 10 arpen on a 110 armour target and a 60 armour target.


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

01-31-2013

But you always reduce their effective HP by the same amount.

You may increase your damage % by less the higher their armour, but if you have 20 flat ArPen, you always reduce their EHP by 20%, so long as they begin with over 20 Armour when you apply the flat arpen.


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Volandum

Senior Member

01-31-2013

That's not remotely true DD, you reduce their EHP by 20% of their max HP. The more their EHP depends on their HP rather than armour, the more impact this has.


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Talith PA

Senior Member

01-31-2013

If you are going for cleaver over youmuu on Jayce you are doing it wrong.


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

01-31-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloquid View Post
Hey thanks for the tips. But why so much armor pen? Basically I feel I benefit more from attack damage and crit chance, since here seems to be more arm pen than amount of armor people usually build so it kind of gets wasted... even more if you had armpen run in the first place?
Crit works great on Jayce lategame but ONLY with his Hypercharge, and ONLY after having significant AD already. I even wrote a guide using Inf Edge, multiple crit base items then upgraded such as atmas, etc. So I could do thousands with hypercharge.

But in S3 I feel that the AD/armor pen works better and is more efficient. it works on most of his abilities, greatly increasing poke plus adds some needed CDR and even health. (vs the rushed IE/crit approach)

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All champs get 100 free armor by 18 thru mastery/rune/natural. So apen isnt really ever wasted. And as stated, armor pen is VERY strong and multiplies your damage BY A PERCENTAGE, vs AD which adds a flat increase.

Say they have 100 armor. They take 50% dmg.
You reduce it 8% to 92, 10% to 83, 35% to 54.
Flat pen of 15+15+15 = 45, reducing to 9. They now resist about 9%.
Your damage just got DOUBLED!
If you get an autoattack with its %pen, youve reduced them to 0.
And that isnt even assuming you land Autoattacks on them via BC/innate penetration.

Even vs a bruiser with 200 armor, a hyperstrike with BC and your innate will be able to drop their armor very very low.
[200 reduced 10% to 180, reduced 8% to 166, reduced 25% to 124, reduced 25% to 94, reduced 35% to 61, dropped 45 flat pen to 16.]

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Even if you are 'wasting' potential on a squishy that you could reduce to negative armor if it were possible, you are dealing TRUE DAMAGE to them and you will reduce them to paste! Your poke will do 600 dmg, hyperstrike 1500, Gapclose/Knockback 900.


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Ghostblade is so-so on Jayce. He isnt an autoattacker really and already has nice movespeed and great poke. When he engages its usually to get a hyperstrike off then Gapclose and Knockback. He rarely sits around and just dukes it out with melee autoattacks... and that is what Ghostblade is best for.

Still, toward endgame, upgrading your 2nd brut to Ghostblade isn't bad, as the crit becomes more useful towards endgame with hyperstrike, and the extra AD, apen, CDR is useful.

In theory you could go BC,ghostblade AND brutalizer. But I find that with BC %pen, last whisper %pen, the 8%, 10%, and your autoattack %pen, you dont need much more than the 2 flat pen sources to drop just about anyone to near 0.


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Talith PA

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Cleaver is suboptimal on Jayce for the same reason trinity force is : his skill rotation has 0 synergy with it.

There is no situation where you are applying cleaver stacks on a target and then doing your damage unless you are some pure fat bruiser Jayce.

Youmuu on the other hand is fantastic on Jayce as a source of ad, cdr, crit, armor pen, and then the active serves as a great clutch gap closer / seperation and a secondary hypercharge.

Whoever down voted me (I'm suspecting Warrrax here) clearly can press the buttons and land some skills but has no idea how to make optimal use of Jayce and his skillset - instead wishing to force a cookie cutter AD caster build on him without thinking about how it actually affects him.


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inFe eD

Senior Member

01-31-2013

So much effort when all you needed to do was quote him:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrrrax View Post
Ghostblade is so-so on Jayce. He isnt an autoattacker really
/eod


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Torkable

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by inFe eD View Post
So much effort when all you needed to do was quote him:
/eod
what the hell does electric organ discharge have to do with this discussion?


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Eloquid

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Just tried youumu's on Jayce, must admit it's incredible. That little crit chance you get is amazingly cost effective when compared to IE. And active is great. Only after do I build cleaver from now on. Or last whisper.


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AgaresOaks

Member

01-31-2013

Entropy is terrible on him. You have a guy who rapidly autoattacks w/ an ability that wants you attack infrequently. Bleh. As a transition from Phage, you are going to want other items first and Jayce is very heavy gold-wise on those items. He doesn't need another big ticket item unless it's to cover another weakness (if you need tankiness, consider going for mallet instead).

Cleaver is also pretty bad but is a halfway workable late game option if you need more tankiness for some reason late but not early. If you want arpen early, get a LW.

Ghostblade is good, but I find it generally feels better to just leave it as a Brutalizer until you've gotten another item at minimum. It's 10 arpen 5 dmg 15 crit vs. 45 dmg (and about one more spawn wave) without the active. That seems like an automatic win for the BFS there if you don't need the active (never mind that the crit and atk speed don't help your AD scaling abilities).

Note: I preferred Q > W > E for most matches. But if anything W > Q > E makes IE even more powerful than GB first.


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