It me, or does the new SoulStealer look crappy.

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Critical Error

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Recruiter

12-01-2009

400ish gold cheaper yes, but 50AP weaker base. More AP per charge, but added risk of losing charges. "Meh" bonus if fully charged; comapred to 15% MS or 15% damage soak, come on.

I just dont think SS is worth it anymore for two reasons, 1 of them more of a personal reason. The first, most people can expect to die in a game. Unless you are far and above better than every single person on the other team and they cant play together at all, youre likely not going to end up death-proof. So basically, you just paid 1000 extra gold to have on average 20-40 AP--865 gold gets you a constant 40AP. This also means you are likely to not even get the full bonus boost, which isnt even that strong (20 charges gives you a 1/4 max -CD).

Second, is more of my playstyle, so not too community impacting perhaps. When I play casters, most of them, I play carry killers. My goal is to shut down their squishies so they cant shut my team down later. This often means playing more risky than most. I always felt that its more important to take a death as a caster if it means you give a death to a carry (especially if they dont get the kill shot in return). My time wasted dead is almost insignificant compared to the time they waste not gaining exp or gold for needed items.

This change basically means that SS is now pretty useless. I average 3-6 deaths a game depending on how defensive they play and therefore how aggressive I play. I used to get Mejai's on some heroes just because 70AP base isnt bad at all. And gaining another 70 while killing was always nice. But now that this item's base is 50AP less, and I can almost never assume Ill get the max +160AP it seems worthless. It even feels more risky dropping the 1000g here instead of somewhere else that is a surefire benefit. At most Id pay an extra 500 combine cost; it'll become something I can port back for at 5 mins in, and build up.

Also, on a side note, why is Mejai's the most expensive of the 3 versions?


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JayceJa

Member

12-01-2009

it think it could possibly be a bit expensive, and the maxed bonus could use a little buff because it seems weaker than the others, but overall it is fine
and comparing it to old soulstealer is stupid, because the old soulstealer was rigged, even in crappy games you could usually max it, getting 140 AP for 1800 gold

new soulstealer is what it is meant to be, if you are the sort who plays very aggressively expecting to die, you shouldn't be buying snowball items,

however the one complaint i have is that i feel now we need a new item to use the mana-stealing on death, it was a very valuable ganking tool increasing your sustainability in a lane


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Somnambulist

Senior Member

12-01-2009

+ 1000

Soulstealer has serious issues now, jayce is right about it being previously too cheap making a good caster great in the early to mid game time frame where they can buy/stack/gank with soulstealer. Problem is this new change hinders a casters late game by nerfing their early farm in the way a nerf to infinity would effect carries. Either the new soul stealer needs a serious price cut like critical mentioned or a starter buff after being completed (ie; completion changes base ap of the item to 40 and it maxes at 18, full stacks result in the same buff that currently exists).


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Spiku

Senior Member

12-01-2009

For my Evelynn, this feels like a huge nerf; the attack power drop will be pronounce; especially as being so squishy with no escape once I am poisoned/oracled/warded meaning the chances of stacking charges worth anything is huge.

1000 gold spent in early game with no return until AFTER kills means I am considerably behind anyone who went for attack power, or health.

Not being able to steal mana, also means that I will be useless in team fights; as I have to sit on the outskirts, rush in and kill someone, then get out of there due to lack of mana. I now have to take a further hit to AP by spending more on mana items, causing me to deal less damage to be able to stay able to output.

Eve is not seen in high level play, and this was a core part for me; I really don't see much sense in the cost, and the time it would take to stack and how much you lose whilst stacking.


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JayceJa

Member

12-01-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiku View Post
For my Evelynn, this feels like a huge nerf; the attack power drop will be pronounce; especially as being so squishy with no escape once I am poisoned/oracled/warded meaning the chances of stacking charges worth anything is huge.

1000 gold spent in early game with no return until AFTER kills means I am considerably behind anyone who went for attack power, or health.

Not being able to steal mana, also means that I will be useless in team fights; as I have to sit on the outskirts, rush in and kill someone, then get out of there due to lack of mana. I now have to take a further hit to AP by spending more on mana items, causing me to deal less damage to be able to stay able to output.

Eve is not seen in high level play, and this was a core part for me; I really don't see much sense in the cost, and the time it would take to stack and how much you lose whilst stacking.
Eve's problems are caused by the nature of stealth, even with old one she was useless because of oracles or warding


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Patyrn

Senior Member

12-02-2009

Soulstealer was a good item. If they wanted a snowball item they should have made a new one for people to nub stomp with.


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Ksielvin

Senior Member

12-02-2009

Mejai's was also the only good way to buy (only) AP. Maybe my champ doesn't care about increasing mana pool in early to mid game, or health or regen or MR. Stacking Blasting Wands is hardly a fun way to fill your slots and you don't get the discounts that combined item prices have. I feel forced into an Archanger's Staff build because I'm going to be paying for mana pool increases to get piddly amounts of AP.

This is with AP Cho'gath, not even Annie or something. For Cho the new Mejai's is almost viable because not dying much is a big priority already. But the whole thing requires just way too many kills/assists (without dying!) before being worth it and the passive you pay for at 20 stacks blows. When I want cooldown reduction I buy it in permanent format, thank you very much. If I'm at reduction cap then it does nothing for me.

Alternatively, WTB Bloodthirster equivalent for AP. I won't mind killing 40 minions for full effect if the cost is right.


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Spiku

Senior Member

12-02-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayceJa View Post
Eve's problems are caused by the nature of stealth, even with old one she was useless because of oracles or warding
The nature of stealth does not cost me stealing mana and extra AP however


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Fael

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Junior Member

12-02-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiku View Post
The nature of stealth does not cost me stealing mana and extra AP however
I think the biggest concern is the mana steal. With most of the casters that I play, your mana pool is often low, and netting a kill can sustain your mana pool to continue group fights.

Without the mana steal ability, after burning your cds, you can't do anything because you have no mana, and your physical attacks are useless (speaking from an Annie/Veigar) perspective.

Late game, when you fill up the stacks on the new Mejais, your mana pool will be sufficient enough that the mana gain is somewhat useless.

This change is going to affect the majority of caster item builds for sure.


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Cleo

Senior Member

12-02-2009

my choices for my evelynn are to either bite the bullet and try the new soul stealer, or look for a replacement. bleh.

then again, the 20 stack heal stacking with the ulti will be pretty sick.