Can't nerf Raw HP without fixing damage aspects first

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General âuck

Member

01-29-2013

As has been mentioned many times people have been stacking belts and warmogs on champions that would not have built it in the previous season.

This is not because these items became magically good but because damage (especially baseline damage) reached such levels that they are unable to perform their role adequately, resulting in a scenario where buying HP also helps them to do more damage than if they were to buy a real damage item.

Nevertheless, I've seen people with over 3k HP get literally instagibbed in the current patch. Literally a 2 sec stun into death which is frustrating not being able to do anything.

With nerfed resistances and strong penetration baseline damage has increased too much. Some champs particularly AD casters now do unexpectedly huge amounts of damage with just BC like Garen. (Not saying garen is too good, just an example)


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Joebillybob

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Member

01-29-2013

you dont nerf hp.

-revert BC
-bring back madreds
-buff ap
-bring back fon

the problem is AD has too much pen. it makes armor worthless so people build hp. AP does so little damage why build mr when you can go hp?


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Naezma

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Garen is not an AD Caster. Urgot, Zed, and Talon are examples of AD Casters.

Anyways, AD Casters have huge base damage and because of this, items effect a moderate amount of their damage output but not by much. Their kit can win fights.
As a person who mains Urgot, I understand what you're saying.

However, HP does not need a nerf.. Nor does armor penetration.

Riot simply has to make armor more effective / cheaper early game. This can be done by adding more armor items and / or ones with special passives.
I have a thread saying something like this.. and I supported a snowball item for junglers which fixes warmog builds, and falling behind in jungling around mid game. Since tops own their own lane, this could also be an item for them. (It gives NEARLY the same amount of health as warmog's if you snowball it, and early game it gives resistances plus a philo stone and a little bit of health.. Similar to but cheaper than Spirit Visage.


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nvmvoidrays

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joebillybob View Post
you dont nerf hp.

-revert BC
-bring back madreds
-buff ap
-bring back fon
no.

they just need to buff resistances back. make them cheaper again so stacking health doesn't become the end all, be all.

also, nerf how much health warmogs gives since that's the biggest offender. 1k health (and 1.5% health regen) for 2.6k gold is really good. i don't think a fully-stacked warmogs pre-item rework gave that much.


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Joebillybob

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01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvmvoidrays View Post
no.

they just need to buff resistances back. make them cheaper again so stacking health doesn't become the end all, be all.

also, nerf how much health warmogs gives since that's the biggest offender. 1k health (and 1.5% health regen) for 2.6k gold is really good. i don't think a fully-stacked warmogs pre-item rework gave that much.
you cant when ad can remove 60% of armor.


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General âuck

Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvmvoidrays View Post
no.

they just need to buff resistances back. make them cheaper again so stacking health doesn't become the end all, be all.

also, nerf how much health warmogs gives since that's the biggest offender. 1k health (and 1.5% health regen) for 2.6k gold is really good. i don't think a fully-stacked warmogs pre-item rework gave that much.
i dont think so.

in short, i dont think warmog's is too effective right now, it just makes burst survivable. it may be too cost effective relative to *some* damage items and resist, but it's not too effective gameplay wise. it makes the game playable.


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Menea6587

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joebillybob View Post
you cant when ad can remove 60% of armor.
That's why you get hybrid items or a mix of health and armor.
Armor still does something; it's just not as powerful.


If you just have 80 armor and 4k hp, you're going to have a **** time trying to kill the ADC LSing off of you. If you have 150 armor and 3k hp, your armor is still going to be shredded, but you'll still live longer and make them live less.


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Menea6587

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naezma View Post
Garen is not an AD Caster. Urgot, Zed, and Talon are examples of AD Casters.

Anyways, AD Casters have huge base damage and because of this, items effect a moderate amount of their damage output but not by much. Their kit can win fights.
As a person who mains Urgot, I understand what you're saying.

However, HP does not need a nerf.. Nor does armor penetration.

Riot simply has to make armor more effective / cheaper early game. This can be done by adding more armor items and / or ones with special passives.
I have a thread saying something like this.. and I supported a snowball item for junglers which fixes warmog builds, and falling behind in jungling around mid game. Since tops own their own lane, this could also be an item for them. (It gives NEARLY the same amount of health as warmog's if you snowball it, and early game it gives resistances plus a philo stone and a little bit of health.. Similar to but cheaper than Spirit Visage.
Bruisers are to AD caster assassins as mages are to AP assassins.

They're the same thing except bruisers go on the front line and mages go in the back. Bruisers are AD casters. They are sustained dps AD casters, but guess where most of their damage comes from? Spells, that scale off of AD and/or deal physical damage.


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ZephyrDrake

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joebillybob View Post
you dont nerf hp.

-revert BC
-bring back madreds
-buff ap
-bring back fon

the problem is AD has too much pen. it makes armor worthless so people build hp. AP does so little damage why build mr when you can go hp?

revert BC? ok bye every single champion that became viable thnx to it.

Bring back madreds? ok, buy the noob trap that really won't actually do anything and that you will be better off buying any other item

Buff AP? they are working on it already

Bring back FoN? ok enjoy your 4k+ item and say good bye to most if not every single MS item that was introduced this season


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Awesomepenguin

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Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joebillybob View Post
you dont nerf hp.

-revert BC
-bring back madreds
-buff ap
-bring back fon

the problem is AD has too much pen. it makes armor worthless so people build hp. AP does so little damage why build mr when you can go hp?
imo they need to bring back madreds but make the % hp passives so they cant stack on the two items like they did with triforce and lichbane. they also need to bring back the Leviathan imo. the problem now if people stack HP is all the %hp items is based on current hp and not max.


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