ADC advice - when your support hides

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SilentSir

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Senior Member

01-29-2013

If your support hides behind you, then hide behind it. One of you should get the idea eventually. Your Support is telling you he isn't comfortable on front lines. Now if Tanky Nasus ain't comfortable, is there a reason why you should be?

I, as a support, will never take a bullet for my ADC, unless one of us must die.


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adc

Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentSir View Post
If your support hides behind you, then hide behind it. One of you should get the idea eventually. Your Support is telling you he isn't comfortable on front lines. Now if Tanky Nasus ain't comfortable, is there a reason why you should be?

I, as a support, will never take a bullet for my ADC, unless one of us must die.
Why not? Would you not rather the support, who can freely go back without losing anything but experience if absolutely necessary, take an Ezreal Q to the face, than your ADC, who loses far more than just experience when they recall, takes it?


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Vrykonik

Senior Member

01-30-2013

bumping for more advice please.


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Chingmeister

Senior Member

01-30-2013

If someone wants to play a kill lane bot, you need to be super aggressive kill lane. Nasus + Darius/Draven/MF for example. You can also cover the support/AD role in one character with AD Soraka/Janna/Sona/Lulu and build BC/LW since they have poor IAS scaling for IE/PD. Support AD's are very strong now, which is a prime reason Riot nerfed LW and BC repeatedly, and will continue to do so. They gave an alternative build to IE/PD, then realized too late the alternative build makes everyone with low IE/PD scaling like most AD casters (who don't scale off crit) and supports/tankies (who don't scale off IAS) OP.

Also shoulda gone dorans > lantern > BC > LW + Warmogs for warding/sustain/armor/health + synergy with Nasus Spirit fire to reduce armor to 0. Tankyness required when support has no hard CC or disengage. It would have also let Nasus recover from death by building tank instead of sightstone.

Also need to let Nasus take at least a third of the farm to be tanky enough to be upfront so that you both control the lane and get farmed up to be useful later. I play AD Sona/Mundo bottom a bit and whoever isn't harassing at the time takes minions...ends up being a 50/50 split ish...which is fine because BC+LW + sightstone/lantern + zerks is a full build and cheap on Sona, and double mogs boots is a full build for Mundo (or any other tanky). The zoning and kills we get from both being powerful in lane makes up for any shortfall on farm since opponents get railed. Say a Taric is supporting EZ...who does he stun? The decently farmed tanky AD Sona? The decently farmed charging tanky Mundo? Either one will zone and wreck a squishy AD.


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Timammoth

Senior Member

01-30-2013

another idea i have heard of is by taking lifesteal quints . Giving you 6% at start of game. Then instead of most plp rushing vamperic scepter, building dorans instead. This would only work if ur 1st main item was going to be IE though. This enables you to already have the lifesteal so therefore getting dorans would be good idea. Just heard wingsofdeath and hoodstomp talking about that on stream.


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OriginalJack

Senior Member

01-30-2013

I'm not building Doran's for the life steal I'm building it so that I can do more damage and take more hits. Going vamp scepter first when they go doran's usually puts you a disadvantage. If you see somebody doing this you should try to force trades with them (if you have the dorans) and I mean big trades not just exchanging poke. Now on the other hand if they are playing defensive and just poking at you without actually trying to trade feel free to skip the doran's, they aren't as helpful in a passive farm lane. In this case I don't think your build was really at fault it was more the fact that this was basically a 2v1 lane.

Getting back to the original question if your support is playing that far back I would advise asking them to play even further back to stop leeching exp from you because that's all they're doing at that point. Even if you're losing lane the support should generally atleast be next to you not behind you. But if you can't convince your gutless support to leave lane you can try warding the lane bush on your side so that the enemy support can't stand in there without getting poked. If your cowardly support won't do it you might need to buy a ward yourself. Generally when you can see where both of them are this will give people confidence.


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roskosp33

Senior Member

01-30-2013

This post pretty much covers why I don't like to play ADC. When I have to I can manage, but this role is the most frustrating for me. Early game, as ADC, it seems you rely on the support for a lot of things (protection, vision, sustain, etc). And most supports I have encountered do not do any of these things.

Most (not all) supports will ward only river or tri bush. It surprises me how many supports do not ward the bushes in lane or at least stand in the bush to give the ADC vision. Most games start the same. I am farming decently and harassing the enemy, but as soon as minions start pushing over the mid lane I get nervous to move forward without vision. This is where the enemy support gets some poke on me or CC because my support usually is hiding behind me. It's fine to hide behind me, but please ward the bush if you're not going to stand in it.

Another thing that happens often is my support will initiate then run away or if I get initiated on they will beam line for safety from the turret. I have had voli support flip a Sona, so naturally I would attack, next thing I know he is running behind me and I am caught in a 1v2 situation. This flip and ditch method baits me to my death. Taric's stun and run does as well.

It sucks when the enemy team is going all in for a kill on the ADC and the support doesn't even help try to peel or save him. Sometimes you just can't save them even after you use all your CD's and it's better just to leave so you only give 1 instead of 2 kills. But most the time you can save your carry. Sometimes just stepping up and doing damage scares the enemy off or turns the focus on you. It's also great if you can run right in front of the enemy or right behind your carry. If you can run in front of the enemy (without dying) you actually mess up their pathing and slow them down (like creep blocking). And if you run behind, almost on top of, your ADC you block skill shots that can kill him or sometimes they accidently click on you instead of your carry.

Don't even get me started on the "I can't auto attack as support because I have no damage/no mana".

I will admit that when I have a good support I feel like the king of the world. The feeling of being able to kite and kill a whole team is amazing, but for me it's not worth the frustration dealing with bad/mediocre supports.

I have tried asking little things like. "auto attack with me please" or "can you ward here please" or "I am taking a lot of harass, can you help me zone?" or "stand in front of me please". A lot of the times surprisingly the support responds with "Muted", or just gets mad and refuses to ward and starts taking farm. I am not asking in a mean manner. I guess some people just don't like to be told what to do.

I am by no means the best ADC (at best I am average), and maybe with practice I could win lane or carry a game despite the support I get. If anyone has suggestions that would be great.


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OriginalJack

Senior Member

01-30-2013

I hear you there roskosp33. The two main things you need to be a good adc player are good positioning and good last hitting but there's a third thing that's key to success in lane and that's synergy with your support. This refers to both the champions and summoner's playing them and it's not always easy. Good support and adc pairings will be able get on the same page quickly while bad pariings will always be pulling in opposite directions.

For example I had this one friend that I've been playing with for a long time that always wants to get super aggressive and I always want to be super passive and farm. When we lane together things often go badly unless we are clearly communicating our intentions over skype. It's not that either one of us is a bad player we just read situations differently. Like if he sees them out of position he wants to go all in for a kill while I will just try to zone them to deny them farm. Neither is really a bad idea but you need to be on the same page for either to work out, you should either both go in or neither go in.

In contrast I have another friend that I don't lane with nearly as often (he is usually mid) but when he's supporting I can say at the begining of the match "Hey, I want to play passively and farm. I want to just poke them most of the time and not go for a kill unless we have both our ults up." and we can stick to that plan all throughout the whole laning phase with minimal communication.

I really wish more people would try to read the person their paired with in solo queue and adjust their level of offense/defense play accordingly.


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bhalbur

Member

01-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakojan View Post
On the Doran's thing I know, but winning against a Cait-Nunu lane as Vayne isn't necessarily easy, and if you are losing, it isnt worth spending 475 gold on an item that won't get you anywhere lat game. I could be wrong though lol.
And she is? I'll keep that in mind. Thanks lol. I was just using an example of Cait-Nunu vs Vayne-(someone). Lol.
The dorans I think are a good item to get still... if they are dominating your lane you dont wanna be a super squish target that they will just dive all day.... you wanna get some early health and damage to help defer them from that so as vayne you can sit back and farm farm farm


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