Myths and Facts About Sejuani

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jedidioh

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Fact: Sejuani is item dependent tank. so if you don't do jack **** early game, you will be ****ed mid game


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Thessalonike

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by jedidioh View Post
Fact: Sejuani is item dependent tank. so if you don't do jack **** early game, you will be ****ed mid game
Sejuani is designed to disrupt,

her innate is 10% for 3 seconds at all levels with no items
her E scales without items and lasts 3 seconds
her R is a 2 and 1 second stun at all levels with no items.

With no items she has the safest initiation combo R+E in the game. A behind Sejuani is only behind.


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Killzerz

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by jedidioh View Post
Fact: Sejuani is item dependent tank. so if you don't do jack **** early game, you will be ****ed mid game
Not really. I mean, all you need is Warmogs to be fine. Stack a Chain Vest and Negatron Cloak on that and you will be incredible.

And like others have said, she really doesn't need items to through her R, Q in, W, hit E and do some decent damage while providing ridiculous utility.


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I am Japanese

Senior Member

01-31-2013

I love her so much, if they add 1 buff anywhere, even if its making q more react better. I would play her a lot more


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Cronovey

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killzerz View Post
Myth: She has to spend a lot of mana to clear camps. [Snipped] Futhermore, with just a Spirit Stone and Philo Stone you won't worry about health or mana anymore.
This one strikes me as a bit silly. While I don't tend to have mana problems on her, you're saying she doesn't need to worry about health or mana....but only after buying not one but TWO health/mana regen items.

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Myth: She clears slowly.
This I agree with. I love running her with magic pen runes, her jungle clear is outstanding with them.

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Myth: She has low damage.
This is debatable. While she can do a decent amount of damage with the right setup, there are other tank jungles who can do more with less items.

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Fact: She is a CC goddess.
This combo is wonderful. I love doing it. But after that...you're just damage for the next ~7.5 seconds even with max CDR, and after that you're only applying your E to the target you're hitting or charging into. Compared to someone like Nautilus who can AoE knockup with a well placed Depth Charge, use his E on a shorter cooldown than Sejuani, grab someone, and root any target he autos every few seconds...she just doesn't look as good. Nautilus also scales well with health, and both champions do well with a Liandry's to increase damage and tankiness.

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Fact: She is easily, EASILY abusable in her own jungle.
This is one I have an issue with; using magic penetration runes she actually duels pretty well. While I wouldn't put her on par with Lee Sin, I've taken Olaf, Shaco, and even Warwicks in solo battles in the jungle because most junglers don't have a whole lot of MR in the early jungle levels.

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Myth: She dies to most duelists.
True. Her Q makes escaping very easy in the jungle if you're good with it.

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Myth: Her ganks are bad.
Her pre-6 ganks are very limited, similar to jungle Wukong. Having a gap closer doesn't make you good at ganking, having a hardcore CC like Sejuani or Wukong's ultimates makes your ganks good. While her pre 6 ganks are better than, say, Warwick, I wouldn't put her up near Amumu who also stuns with his gap closer, Nautilus who grabs a target with his, or Cho'gath who can knockup and slow from range, then silence to prevent flashes.

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Myth: She is an expensive jungler.
This is true. She can do all right with very little in the way of items, but this isn't a strength to her specifically; this is true of nearly all tank junglers. In comparison though, most of them also have some sort of damage reduction in their kit which allows them to do the same things with slightly less gold. So in a comparison to other tank jungles...her build seems like it's more expensive because she needs the items earlier than others, when in reality, it's the same price, she just needs to find that gold income faster to become as tanky as the other junglers.

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Fact: Poor dragon/baron control. Whereas someone like Mundo, Olaf, or Lee Sin can wreck these beasts with impuity, Sejuani has rough time.
Absolutely true. No arguments there.

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Discussion? I expect downvotes, but I love Sejuani and just hope she doesn't get buffed, then nerfed to the ground. Did I miss something? I am more than glad to edit my post, especially if it's relevant! (On a related note, if you downvote it would be nice to know WHY so you can persuade me to change my mind).
The partial rework is already well underway, and there have been many posts about it recently. She's going to be buffed, and rebalanced around her new kit. Last I saw, they're talking about giving her a brand new passive and making her current passive a passive on her E instead, as well as making it unaffected by Tenacity and slow reduction so the meager 10% actually means something instead of Tenacity and slow reduction in the defense tree making it almost nonexistent outside of it's interaction with her kit. They also talked about making her ultimate only stun if it actually connects with a target instead of the current method where it explodes at max range and stuns around it; they've said this would allow them to move more power into the rest of her kit as well as reward good play and add more counterplay to her.

I love playing her, but she just doesn't do well in comparison to other tank jungles like Nautilus, Amumu, or Cho'gath who get (respectively) a shield, passive damage reduction, or free sustain/maximum health.

[Edit] Upvoted for good discussion, even if I don't agree with all the points.


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Killzerz

Senior Member

01-31-2013

@Cronovey

To be honest, all you need is Philo Stone for mana (can be done in your first clear). Your health still takes a little hit, but you are going to be pretty healthy, just as healthy as other junglers. With Spirit Stone, expect to be at full health ALWAYS.

She has high damage compared to many tanks like Cho'Gath (he has his ult, but he really needs AP to do much with his combo) or Amumu (yes, her W can do 200 dps while his does less unless against the tankiest of targets) or Skarner or Jarvan... I mean, the only people who really can outdamage her is Mundo and Olaf if he hits his axes.

Her pre-6 ganks are still good. She has a gap-closer AND a slow. Also, to damage people you can just run along side them, making it so you don't have to worry about continual AA. Not saying she is Maokai good, but she is pretty damn strong next to most junglers.

She doesn't need gold although it helps her immensely. R, Q in, W, and hit E. You'll do a decent amount of damage (not really great without items) BUT you give your team some immense utility. Honestly, the CC is better than Amumu's in most cases.


Nautilus cannot shut down an entire team. And you break his shield and he is just annoying, not very damaging. Also, his Titan's Wrath is on such a long cooldown it actually hinders his jungling.

Amumu doesn't have her damage unless he is really far ahead and the other team starts AAing him. Also, while he has better single target CC Sejuani has better team-wide CC with her ult into an E (that's 4-5 seconds of a stun+(70%)slow).

Cho'Gath doesn't have her CC. It's good, but his Q is unreliable. And no where near her sustained daamge (although I agree his R is quite nasty as burst damage).


Oh, and with a Philo Stone after your first clear you don't need to really worry about mana or health anymore, and it builds into a sweet item for her (plus gp/10 passive).



I'm not saying you are wrong, but these are my opinions. Although all of your points DO make sense, I'm not sure they are true to the extent to which they seem. But each of us have our own opinions don't we? Upvoted for thoughtful discussion!


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Pink Moon Bunny

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cronovey View Post
This I agree with. I love running her with magic pen runes, her jungle clear is outstanding with them.
You do know that Pen. Runes only on work on champions right? Does not affect neutral creeps or minions.


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2pudge1cup

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Senior Member

02-03-2013

just grabbed her and reading through the thread.

my jungle pages are kinda mixed.

i have an ap/ms/as page and a as/ms page that im looking at that seem good. or should i do an armor/as page? or should i make an hp page? ive read through that she's kinda flexible though im wondering if any are better than others. i also have a spellvamp/ap page too if that's good.

she seems like she has a lot of ap scalings, not sure if im getting hung up on the wrong thing or not

she's basically the last jungler i have to own/play and see if i like her. elise too, though she'll probably see more nerfs.

edit to add: also for the mini golems on initial clear? avoid or kill? i tend to go for them on quite a few junglers since they have negative MR and a lot of junglers i like do magic damage (cho, amumu, maok, pheonix udyr, etc etc). it speeds up your initial clear on quite a few of them and you don't eat a hell of a lot of extra damage.

edit#2: skill order at least for the first 4 levels: w, q, w, e? or w, q, e, w? or something else?

(if you havent noticed yet im really @n@l about how my jungle openings are) - word censored lovely riot


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2pudge1cup

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Senior Member

02-03-2013

Ok, just tested her with some of my 'standard' pages.

She seems really really leash dependent. Though I can definitely see her flying through if she's able to take blue without losing a lot of hp or potions.

Edit: Just to clear something up: it seems to me like she has a really hard time getting to decent hp after the 2nd wraiths so she can do a level 4 gank. Unless I get a really really strong leash from both the outer lane and mid I don't see how I can do it. Or am I missing something about her? I have roughly the same masteries/runes as posted but I can't seem to figure out without having to back after I hit 4, which is a no can do with my playstyle.


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2pudge1cup

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Senior Member

02-04-2013

bump