Why do Game Developers think they know what the players want? What games failed you?

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ItemsGuy

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post

Don't be scared to offer new depth and new skills, and make players learn all over again is my main point.
: )


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WORST PLAYS AU

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Crysis 1 was a near masterpiece

crysis 2 was vomit-worthy garbage

but w/e


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Pika Fox

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Senior Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredmonroe View Post
To be frank Morello, I'm surprised you would use the smash example as it is actually contrary to your points.

I don't know if you're in touch with the smash scene, but judging from your post, you aren't, so I'll elaborate.

There are currently more melee than brawl tournaments, and there is a much more alive competitive scene for melee.

Melee is actually going to be at Evo 2013, the biggest fighting game tournament that there is, because the melee community won a donation drive, raising 100k dollars for breast cancer research.

Melee players did "cry wolf" about how bad Brawl was, and how it ruined smash, but you know what? They were right. There was a wolf that killed the flock.

http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=51

You can see tournament listings here, a lot are just casual and small tournaments, not even the bigger ones like Evo which typically only have melee or only a very small brawl following. By the way, Project M is a mod for brawl that makes it like melee, and may've surpassed brawl in popularity

Since this is such a damning counterexample to what you said, I'll expect you to just ignore this. Oh well.

So in conclusion, you're doubly wrong with your smash example.

1) Brawl is a less competitive game (and much less of a spectator game..) which did generally ruin the game (as evidenced by more melee tournaments with bigger turnouts) with what I speculate to be a less cohesive community and less players (as evidenced by melee blowing brawl out of the water in the donation drive and also extrapolating from tournament data, and youtube video views)

2) Releasing a melee clone would have been a safe move and a better move, as evidenced by a user-made (now they did a pretty fine job, but it's not professionally made by most standards) mod for brawl that has skyrocketed in popularity.

Edit: And to your point of melee players can still play melee even with brawl's existence, so no harm done?

Yes harm done. Melee is a game which could have used some balancing and a bigger cast. It could have also used a graphical update (the game is 2001 for the gamecube) and also needs a tech upgrade (all melee games that are competitive have to be played on CRT tv's due to the low res output lagging if it is upscaled to work on any modern TV. Maybe this is why PM is so popular?) Oh the melee scene was also drastically damaged by brawl as a lot of players left for brawl and it took a while for them to return to melee. Oh and melee's clout among the Fighting game community was also heavily damaged. EVO 2013 is the first evo that melee (and i believe smash in general though I could be wrong) will be at since EVO 2007 (the year brawl was released.)

SO yeah. Damage done.

Don't get me wrong, I like LoL a lot, but your point that "all sequels need to be different than their previous incarnations in order to exist," is just clearly wrong for this circumstance.
The super smash brothers series was never meant to be a tourny legal and balanced series The devs even made a random trip in brawl SPECIFICALLY so the game would never be tourny viable. Its a casual, senseless fun game. Nothing more.


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Vladeous

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Morello lets rework atma's.

chainvest+pickaxe 1% of max health as ad

Boom no longer a dead item.


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Cyrad

Senior Member

02-08-2013

What games have failed me?

Tibia
An old sprite MMO based on the Ultima 6 engine made by CipSoft. For every problem the game had, CipSoft always took an approach where the solution was only available as a reward for an extremely difficult quest only accessible to premium players.

The chief reason I quit was the economy. The game's economy worked in a way that doing fun activities was not profitable. If you wanted to hunt dragons, you needed 5000gp of supplies, but you were lucky to make 2000gp from the loot you get because the valuable items could not be sold to NPCs. There was no marketplace system.

CipSoft tried to fix the problem by making NPCs that can buy valuable loot. However, the NPCs were accessible to only premium players after they completed an insanely difficult quest. Players that did so then would buy loot from other players. However, this ended up driving the prices lower, making the situation worse.

The game has been around for decades and yet CipSoft still has the same attitude. Instead of addressing problems directly, they shifted their priorities toward releasing gimmicky features that have little to no affect on gameplay.

S4 League
A Korean action 3rd-person shooter, akin to GunZ. However, Pentavision grew too aggressive with micro-transactions. Instead making premium content more appealing, they made free content worse. They changed starting outfits from cool-but-simple futuristic t-shirts to ugly pajamas, selling the former starting outfits as premium content.

They never did balance changes. Never. Once an item was released, it stays like that forever.

Team Fortress 2
This is moreso bias than the others, but I hate the direction Team Fortress 2 took. It was a very solid multiplayer game with excellent aesthetics. Every new weapon felt added a meaningful spin to the game without being too much. Now, the game is a mess with hats and new items constantly being thrown in. I really hate the crate system. I openly oppose any micro-transaction system that encourages you gamble real money for virtual items.

Super Smash Bros Brawl
No explanation needed. I will say that while I don't disagree with their decision to bring more casual appeal, I feel they made the wrong decisions to achieve that.


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Kato75

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Senior Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
A couple things;

The feedback here, in this case, is not representative of most players. The people complaining are a very low number, but the people interested in the skin lines are massive. The problem is more a perception than a reality.

Secondly, we aren't good at prioritizing theme clusters - this is somewhat related to why Steel Legion Lux is a problem. We'd never done the work to prioritize the "right" skin for Lux first - a problem that needs to be solved quickly, imo

There's things to solve here, but it's less critical than presented in my mind. This is about filtering signal-to-noise.

Something that,while doesn't bother me that much,is the Popularity=Skin paradox

If a champions is popular,he gains a skin
If he isnt,he normally does not
But if he doesnt have more skins,will he have more popularity>

Also,even tought I cant see where soraka could fit in the current meta,how much do you think you guys lost in NOT releasing a soraka skin with her VU>


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Morello

Lead Designer

02-08-2013
65 of 91 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItemsGuy View Post
: )
Hehe point taken - I mean between multiple products.


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Morello

Lead Designer

02-08-2013
66 of 91 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato75 View Post
Something that,while doesn't bother me that much,is the Popularity=Skin paradox

If a champions is popular,he gains a skin
If he isnt,he normally does not
But if he doesnt have more skins,will he have more popularity>

Also,even tought I cant see where soraka could fit in the current meta,how much do you think you guys lost in NOT releasing a soraka skin with her VU>
A bit - but since we are going to release the skin soon (really!) we have high hopes. We do a model where we compare the skin popularity and adjust it for the champ popularity (under this model, Battlecast Urgot is well-received, for example).

This is primarily to teach us "taste trends" in League players.


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Morello

Lead Designer

02-08-2013
67 of 91 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrad View Post
Super Smash Bros Brawl
No explanation needed. I will say that while I don't disagree with their decision to bring more casual appeal, I feel they made the wrong decisions to achieve that.
This is one of the more interesting ideas I've heard on the subject. Care to elaborate?


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Besteau

Senior Member

02-08-2013

In pokemon they turned tms to re-useable items and poison no longer affects the pokemon out of combat. Its like a burn now.

A good game that was downed was legend of dragoon. You had to work for your additional damage when you attacked. (Hence the name additions)