Why do Game Developers think they know what the players want? What games failed you?

First Riot Post
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davesmack

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Because its their job to tell you what you want, and then give you the things they said you wanted.

Just like this league system. They told us we all totally hated the ELO system, and we wanted something that was the exact same thing but appeared more rewarding on the surface. They made it very clear that is what we wanted, and then they gave it to us. Good for them. I can't wait for them to give me another opinion.


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Maurscream

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dex7ter View Post
What i wanted in LoL

1. champion select report, if u dont agree on kick at lest just get optio to report toxic players.
2. Remake duo, dont allow to destroy other people games if there to much elo rating difference.
3. In tribunal u should get 1 case, after player got 5 punish him, right now u can get only 1 game when u do it something wrong and players dont check other they just push the button, thats why i get ban 2 times in a row.
4. improve a lot ranked system now its sucks, now u have to get a realy luck to get up. If u dont improve this game sonn will have name League of luck
5. system that check if are 5 players realy conected to the game if not pause game and w8 max 5 min if not players who have dc lose points and rest dont have to play a 20 min game in most of the times.
6. Some icon system what u play in champion select.
We can give some icons every lane will have some special icons so when u connect to the champion select lobby u know what other players like to play.
7. i think playing with bots should be allowed only to test champions and dont give exp and ip, if u want to lvl up u account u should play normal games.
8.What if players cant log in and play in lol more then 1 month, he go trip or to hospital, u still will lose u rating even if u cant play with it i think it should be option to pause u rating. If u cant play u shouldnt lose that much or have a chance to get back to u true tier/ladder especially when now its much harder to go up.
9. Much better leaver system, i think leaver should lose more points then other players.
10. Much better support service, right now they send the same formula to every person they dont check the core of the problem.
11. Remove random pick.


i add few screens from my big colection.

Things people wanted from your post before anyone took it seriously:

1. Proper capitalization.
2. Proper spelling
3. No use of "u" in place of "you"
4. Well thought out, non-generic ideas.
5. Something that showed an IQ that's higher than my shoe size.


What we got from your post, and therefore didn't take it seriously:

1. Herp
2. Derp
3. Derpa
4. Herpadoo


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AORainmaka

Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by davesmack View Post
Because its their job to tell you what you want, and then give you the things they said you wanted.

Just like this league system. They told us we all totally hated the ELO system, and we wanted something that was the exact same thing but appeared more rewarding on the surface. They made it very clear that is what we wanted, and then they gave it to us. Good for them. I can't wait for them to give me another opinion.
I once again will say I love this new idea of a system. Because the surface is sometimes what is important to the masses. How many pros are there? Or people that devote massive amounts of time? The casual gamer (like myself) finds moving up a tier to be absolutely awesome. And knowing I'm competing against others in about the same general competitive area is awesome. I think that's what they were aiming for.


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Busty Demoness

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Senior Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by LightEntite View Post
Anyone ever play Phantasy Star Online before?


Sega has failed at a sequel to that for almost 10 years now. And their new one is just a stupid F2P cash cow attempt. The death of a great IP, i tell you man...i used to get the most random people completely hooked on that game on campus....


Which isn't surprising. Sega's been screwing up Sonic the Hedgehog for WAYYYY longer than Phantasy Star.
I have the gamecube version, and a memory card for gamecube so I can still play it.

I grinded to ultimate difficulty, and felt that was a reward just by unlocking it.

Then, I saw how they changed nearly everything.

Monsters became more monstrous, and 20 times tougher (and do not think I am BSing you on this, first time I went through Ultimate Forest it took me FOREVER to take out just the first room). Gear drops became LOADS better. And bosses started unleashing powers that could make you cringe if you weren't prepared. Even the environment settings changed. Instead of a noon-time stroll through the woods, you got a 6 o'clock setting of "this may be your last day of life". And that was just the Forest sector.

PSO was very rewarding for time spent, and I have yet to find a comparable game of the series.

That aside, I found FF13 to be reasonable. But I attribute that to having only played that and a couple of the SNES Final Fantasy games.


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moltres27

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Senior Member

02-08-2013

Morello seems a hard pinch


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Dex7ter

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maurscream View Post
Things people wanted from your post before anyone took it seriously:

1. Proper capitalization.
2. Proper spelling
3. No use of "u" in place of "you"
4. Well thought out, non-generic ideas.
5. Something that showed an IQ that's higher than my shoe size.


What we got from your post, and therefore didn't take it seriously:

1. Herp
2. Derp
3. Derpa
4. Herpadoo

yes my english isnt good but at least i try give some tips what they need improve


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Fredmonroe

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I love the Smash example -

I think sequels or new takes on old games need to have some departure from the original to have a need to exist at all. The first thing that will happen when you do this is that your current hardcore players will shout doomsday of how removing X (wavedashing/Conc jumping/denying/door hacking/AWP price/etc etc etc) will ABSOLUTELY DESTROY your game and you fail as a company and are out of touch.

I want to go on record to tell these players to knock them ****s off. Time for some real talk

.
To be frank Morello, I'm surprised you would use the smash example as it is actually contrary to your points.

I don't know if you're in touch with the smash scene, but judging from your post, you aren't, so I'll elaborate.

There are currently more melee than brawl tournaments, and there is a much more alive competitive scene for melee.

Melee is actually going to be at Evo 2013, the biggest fighting game tournament that there is, because the melee community won a donation drive, raising 100k dollars for breast cancer research.

Melee players did "cry wolf" about how bad Brawl was, and how it ruined smash, but you know what? They were right. There was a wolf that killed the flock.

http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=51

You can see tournament listings here, a lot are just casual and small tournaments, not even the bigger ones like Evo which typically only have melee or only a very small brawl following. By the way, Project M is a mod for brawl that makes it like melee, and may've surpassed brawl in popularity

Since this is such a damning counterexample to what you said, I'll expect you to just ignore this. Oh well.

So in conclusion, you're doubly wrong with your smash example.

1) Brawl is a less competitive game (and much less of a spectator game..) which did generally ruin the game (as evidenced by more melee tournaments with bigger turnouts) with what I speculate to be a less cohesive community and less players (as evidenced by melee blowing brawl out of the water in the donation drive and also extrapolating from tournament data, and youtube video views)

2) Releasing a melee clone would have been a safe move and a better move, as evidenced by a user-made (now they did a pretty fine job, but it's not professionally made by most standards) mod for brawl that has skyrocketed in popularity.

Edit: And to your point of melee players can still play melee even with brawl's existence, so no harm done?

Yes harm done. Melee is a game which could have used some balancing and a bigger cast. It could have also used a graphical update (the game is 2001 for the gamecube) and also needs a tech upgrade (all melee games that are competitive have to be played on CRT tv's due to the low res output lagging if it is upscaled to work on any modern TV. Maybe this is why PM is so popular?) Oh the melee scene was also drastically damaged by brawl as a lot of players left for brawl and it took a while for them to return to melee. Oh and melee's clout among the Fighting game community was also heavily damaged. EVO 2013 is the first evo that melee (and i believe smash in general though I could be wrong) will be at since EVO 2007 (the year brawl was released.)

SO yeah. Damage done.

Don't get me wrong, I like LoL a lot, but your point that "all sequels need to be different than their previous incarnations in order to exist," is just clearly wrong for this circumstance.


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Endertome

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endertome View Post
On the subject of developers who do or do not know what their customers are asking for/want/need, I was curious what kinds of motivations Riot has behind skin design.

I mean, lately we've had a huge wave of high tech skins for a lot of champions new and old. There have been posts complaining about this. While I personally think the skins are individually cool, what's the reasoning for releasing similar themes in such a dense cluster? Why not break up the theme with other themes?

To use the high tech/sci fi example, it could be broken up by more magical or natural themed skins.
Quoting since it was probably missed.


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TwIzTiDofAH

Junior Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildLeon View Post
I played halo 3 and got to 46 skill then i realized it wasnt about skill anymore it was about grenade spam. Land a grenade and headshot count is only 1. If anything i was "pro" at bouncing grenades off surfaces...
I disagree, pulling off a kill so smooth with a single grenade+headshot is, on the contrary, a very skillful "play"


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TwIzTiDofAH

Junior Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I feel bad for you because your experience in the industry seems like it's been a bit of a nightmare.

One thing I will say with Riot that I think is different is that I feel we lack that - top-down stuff isn't our style, and I think that's part of why our game is actually more in-touch with players.
I agree, and I must say they're aren't many games like that, which is why I have been playing LOL since release, and dream to be a programmer for riot one day