Why do Game Developers think they know what the players want? What games failed you?

First Riot Post
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Aerophobia

Senior Member

02-06-2013

I'm incredibly sad to see there was no mention of runescape whatsoever even thought the 2nd post lists it as something bad. I was hoping to see some discussion on runescape. At least 1 post and response on the matter at least.

I grew up playing runescape and i believe i was still playing it when i found and started playing league during season 1. They've made many a handful of mistakes that angered a large majority of their player base and lost them a good chunk of players as well. I haven't really played for awhile but i still look into things with it and look at updates and used to hop on here and there. The most recent big update for runescape is the EoC (evolution of combat). In the past year of two they have filled the game with micro transactions, IMO horrible graphics updates that made everything look close to the same thing when there used to be obvious distinctions between armor sets, and now updated the ONE thing that was unique which was the combat system. With their EoC update they rid the game of the combat system many enjoyed about the game and the weapons special skills. And why did they do it? Seemingly to try and be like other games in its category like WoW. But graphics wise and combat wise it fails in comparison to all of them even with being a free game. And thats just horrible....and its only their most recent mistake anyways


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MastaGeorge

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Junior Member

02-06-2013

We NEED that anivia skin.


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Taria05

Senior Member

02-06-2013

I've never felt like the desing team takes an athoritatian approach on game decision any makes all change without considering player imput, but I do feel like the game suffers from "The quickest fix is the best fix" mentality. Not to say that planned releases that people are excited for should be delayed to create something unexpected a different group of people might be excited for, but making thematic and sometime balance choices should take into consideration possible future content.

For example, on Sejuani's release she had an interesting interaction with wall-skinned minions that broke impassible terrain summoned by champions. Now charging at an artificial wall and smashing it to pieces is definately a thematically fitting situation, and sejuani would probably be more exciting if you could do such things, however instead of implementing the bug as a new mechanic, it was "fixed" and shoved under the rug. Clearly the way the bug functioned was unacceptable for two reasons, 1. walls were just kind of bumped around instead of shattered into tiny bits of destruction and 2. leaving in something that emerged accidently and looked buggy would probably come as an insult to player who are using champions it negatively impacts. Instead of just erasing the thing entirely though, I think Riot could have absorbed it into gameplay. They could have created new graphics for the walls that made them more clearly demenstrate their demolition and balanced Sejuani's skills around the fact that she could break through walls for the rest of her team. Perhaps you might wonder "why give a champion a move that only does something special against three different champions?" And to that I say, "Why not make more champions with wall abilities now that it has the potential to be stronger since there is a champion with counterplay?"

Another situation where Riot took the quick and easy is with Elise. People complained that she was too underpowered to be interesting (even though she wasn't, but that's a different conversation XD) and so Riot's response was, "let's buff her for the state of the game that exists now." Elise had exceptional potential with a moveset that centralized strongly around spammable %health damage unlike most champions who just have one or two skills that scale off of it for an execute or ultimate effect. With that state of balance for penetration and most of the item in the game about to be shifted, giving an already "fun" and thematically fitting champ an early buff to appease competetive interests was a hasty move. Soon after the entire balance of defensive itemization shifted onto health stacking, and as a result Elise became an unpleasant terror. I used to love Elise because she had a secretly strong niche, but then people just started building defensive item to auto win on an assasin champ and it invalidated any concept of skill involved with the character, and also broke her "theme".

If something feels fun or looks really cool, it probably doing exactly what it needs to be doing on some level and shouldn't just be dismissed. Hastily making decision based on the competetive state of the game as it currently stands is no way to approach things. Balance the game around things that look like they'll be fun, rather than trying to force them to turn out how you expected, because the best ideas come from champions that are interesting and engaging.


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IceCold123321

Junior Member

02-07-2013

Who do I speak to if I have an idea for a champion?


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Brodrew

Member

02-07-2013

FF7 was bad


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WraithNexus

Senior Member

02-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanra View Post
I meant including 8. It's all downhill from 7.

These changes are what I men when I said developers have to change with the times.

Over time, FF has gone from deep, compelling storylines and timed/turn based combat, to flashy graphics, fan service and an action combat style.

Unfortunately, even the world's greatest console RPG franchise isn't immune to the winds of change (ie, the shift in focus of what consumers want)


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Festi

Junior Member

02-07-2013

hmmm


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WildLeon

Senior Member

02-07-2013

The CoD series... so infinity ward and treyarch...

CoD4- Alright this would be great if you added this, this and took away this.
CoDWaW- uhm, okay you went kinda the wrong way, but you did fix some other stuff. Plus different developer. I guess not bad.
CoDMW2- errr... ok jugs gone but wtf this quickscope with no skill because of sleight of hand? Machine pistols? Shotgun secondarys? K Pro perks are a plus but one man army? Who was the idiot that thought of that.
CoDBlops- alright no stopping power and no jugg. Weapons should be balanc.... ak47u ak 74u famas famas... dear lord now you made it so accurately firing weapons that have high rate of fire rule because damage is the same through out most of the weapons.
CoDMW3- K we fixed the shotgun secondary issue but for the love of god the machine pistols are back. Accurate high rate of fire machines powerhouse above everything else (ACR/MP7) Cleaned it up a bit and are getting closer to the goal but now its patheticly easy to get kills.
CoDBlops2-... alright wtf is this. Token system? And we cant unlock all of the guns in one go either. Forced to prestige if we make the wrong choice. Guns are closer to balanced but why use a sniper when the assault rifles and submachine guns can almost have as much range. Ok nice touch to the attachments. 10 point class system is odd but manageable, but again we have the it is too easy to get kills problem.

Overall the CoDs have made it easier for people to pickup and play, and dont reward skill anymore. Older players such as myself all the way back to CoD2 realize its made steps in the right direction but its killing itself by making it to "noob friendly"


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OMG Its Wellz

Senior Member

02-07-2013

Halo after Halo 3 failed. It was one of the best competitive games there. Same weapons, all about map control, communication, power weapon control and then they threw away all that with Halo Reach. They added randomness with a bloom factor, the ability to have a different starting set up (DMR or AR or something else) and ultimately just stopped looking at the competitive scene all together. They quit looking at the competitive side and looked at the $$$$$$$. I want a game like that back. But the closest thing for a console is Black Ops 2. And that is way different than Halo.


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TwIzTiDofAH

Junior Member

02-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skye Zero View Post
I've seen glitches/accidental coding error, that players enjoyed and could've sparked an idea for the developers to incorporate in the game, get "fixed". I've seen so many games turn to dust due to over-simplification of the game. Games that begin to turn "r&tard proof" hurts its older players and benefits newer players. The irony is making something extremely easy to understand doesn't quite bring out skill or understanding to the new users, they must go through the hours of experience like everyone else did. If anything the game becomes more easier and "over powered" from my experience and levels/achievements are gained much easier & faster.

All it took was Burning Crusade (Second Expansion of WoW) to wreck the game for a lot of users. WOTLK was personally what was the last straw for me. The 2 games that disappointed me the most were, Maplestory & Gunz. With so many new jobs and monsters, what used to take beta/2005 users a year+ of grinding to get to level 170-ish not even 200. Now in 2013 a player can achieve level 200 in a week with NX Cash(Karma Coins)

Gunz 2 removed the ability to K-style and many other trick moves. This was what made the game unique in its own way. No other game came close to the combat system gunz had. You defied gravity and did it with style(armor and skills) The best part was you did not have to conform to learning K-style.The community created their own game style without aid of the Developers. Everyone knew their play style and joined rooms that complimented it. (People didn't get angry because you didn't go with the meta(K-style) there were i believe 4 other styles then sprayers)

TL;DR I fear Riot will fall into this way of thinking "We know what you want" I see it a little bit, but hopefully its nothing. I'm curious to see if anyone has felt this way about a game you used to play. I'd like to read the comments.
Well, coming from a game/web developer, I can say its not always what us as programmers want to do. Sometimes we are persuaded, or even forced by people bigger up to make games certain ways, and typically what your saying is correct; often we make games appeal more to newer players and easier for all skill levels to play. Most programmers of course like myself are mega gamers, and skilled players as well, so we have the same views as you but typically, we have no choice. I guess all I'm saying is it isn't always the programmers you want to focus on, but the guys bigger up, as they are sending these orders down to appeal to noobs for, what else, money.