Now that they nerfed Armor Penetration Runes . . . .

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Kaeoz

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Senior Member

10-22-2010

The problem with AD is that it gets "worse" the more you have. That is to say the more AD you get... the less effective getting another point into AD will be. The same applies to attack speed. Your first AS item will give around its value in increased DPS. Your next won't even come close.

Thing about armor pen is... the more you get... the more powerful it gets...... <-- Armor pen > AD for sure.


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Seiuchi

Senior Member

10-22-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaeoz View Post
The problem with AD is that it gets "worse" the more you have. That is to say the more AD you get... the less effective getting another point into AD will be. The same applies to attack speed. Your first AS item will give around its value in increased DPS. Your next won't even come close.

Thing about armor pen is... the more you get... the more powerful it gets...... <-- Armor pen > AD for sure.
That's wrong. Each point of AD is as valuable as the one before. What you're probably thinking of is that as you stack more AD, the value of other stats increases, thus making AD stacking worse compared to AD/AS/Crit/ArmorPen hybridization.


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She lookd lvl 18

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Senior Member

10-22-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaeoz View Post
The problem with AD is that it gets "worse" the more you have. That is to say the more AD you get... the less effective getting another point into AD will be. The same applies to attack speed. Your first AS item will give around its value in increased DPS. Your next won't even come close.

Thing about armor pen is... the more you get... the more powerful it gets...... <-- Armor pen > AD for sure.
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Vanilla Squid

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Senior Member

10-22-2010

Yeah there's 1,001 things wrong with that concept. You need an Infinity Edge AND a Bloodthirster before an attack speed item increases your effective DPS more than either of those. That's how valuable AD is. You need TONS of it before AS starts to become more valuable.


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The Itis

Senior Member

10-22-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyhan View Post
There are many situations where flat AD and scaling AD will be better now.
I would like a few of these numerous situations explained, if possible.

I play a lot of Yi/Trist/MF phys DPS kinda chars.


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Tieryal

Senior Member

10-22-2010

I missed the nerf. Linkplz?


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Tyhan

Senior Member

10-22-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Itis View Post
I would like a few of these numerous situations explained, if possible.

I play a lot of Yi/Trist/MF phys DPS kinda chars.
If they have 300 armor and you have a choice between 31 armor pen and 45 AD, which helps more? The 45 AD obviously. If they have 30 armor and you have the same choice the armor pen obviously. Flat AD will net higher damages against low armor champions than armor pen will around the first few levels (before they catch up to the point where armor pen becomes stronger, this is because 20 armor pen is weaker than 20 AD against 10 armor, but stronger at 20 armor). By the time armor pen catches up to flat AD's effectiveness, often scaling AD will have as well. And armor pen is now getting weaker while scaling AD is getting stronger because they're getting more armor than you can penetrate.

Not to say armor penetration is worse, just there are situations where it can be. Overall it's probably just as effective and is now a matter of preference and/or champion you are using.


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Seiuchi

Senior Member

10-22-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyhan View Post
If they have 300 armor and you have a choice between 31 armor pen and 45 AD, which helps more? The 45 AD obviously. If they have 30 armor and you have the same choice the armor pen obviously.
It's still going to vary based on your AD. If they have 300 armor, 31 armor pen is better so long as your AD is less than 555 (which means for all practical purposes you were right to say damage is better when they have 300 armor). If they have 30 armor, 31 armor pen is better so long as your AD is greater than 150 (which means that early to mid game, 45 AD would actually be better).

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbar View Post
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Spear Shot, HSS, Mystic Shot, and Double Up are all physical and it's usually much better to have mpen than damage on Kat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanilla Squid View Post
Yeah there's 1,001 things wrong with that concept. You need an Infinity Edge AND a Bloodthirster before an attack speed item increases your effective DPS more than either of those. That's how valuable AD is. You need TONS of it before AS starts to become more valuable.
Imagine you're Ashe at level 18. Base damage is 98 and base attack speed is 1.05. Recurve Bow and Pick Axe cost about the same for 0.26 attack speed and 25 damage respectively. If you already had IE and Bloodthirster, you would have between about 240 and 280 damage. Buying Pick Axe would increase your dps by about 10% Recurve Bow, on the other hand, would increase your dps by about 25%. In that case, the Recurve Bow is much more cost-efficient dps. If you didn't have those items already, Pickaxe would add about 25% dps, almost the same as Recurve Bow (although it's slightly cheaper and increases Volley damage, so you would want it first).


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SdBoLt

Senior Member

10-22-2010

Im just dissapointed that ive actually put in the time recently to do some math and review others' and plopped down a ton of ip on armor pen runes. With this change it will be a long time to change up my setups if im looking for a good early game advantage. The difference may be somewhat minimal, but it kinda sucks I just completed some page setups and they threw me a curveball. On the other hand, it is nice to see a game constantly evolving. For better or worse, it keeps it somewhat fresh as setups & heroes are constantly getting nerfed/buffed/reworked while new heroes are being introduced.


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Unr3alAnGeR

Senior Member

10-22-2010

AD are still the runes of choice for most champions.


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