I think every team should just pick Kassadin.

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blackDAILO

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Don't know why but I've been noticing a LOT of Kass spamming for the past week.


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NamKim

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bma View Post
But just so you are aware, once Kassadin gets nerfed, it's going to be the Nidalee/Khazix spam next. All we are really doing is going down to the next 'lesser evil' but a champion that overwhelms the rest of the roster is almost always going to exist.
That's fine. I prefer going against a Nidalee/Kha'zix over a Kassadin any day of the week.

Don't get me wrong, they're both exceptionally powerful champions. But at least they are counterable. At least they are bearable until RiotNome can get to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolferer View Post
Am I the only person who wins games against Kassadin? Seriously, if you stop giving up at loading screen maybe you'll win a few.
It's not that we can't win against Kassadin. It's just sucks all the fun out of the game. The only thing that counters Kass is another Kass. Other than that, you need an exceptionally well-coordinated team with chain CC. If you needed neither to win, then chances are the enemy team's Kass sucked or the enemy team just sucked in general.

@SCIENCE
Geez, thanks a lot. You report them as unskilled, then matchmaking pairs them up with lower elo players...meaning all the Kassadin's I've been seeing is because of you!!1! I hate you!!1!

Just kidding.


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A12MO12

Senior Member

01-28-2013

no


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TempNam325rwe5

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Senior Member

01-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by NamKim View Post
That's fine. I prefer going against a Nidalee/Kha'zix over a
@SCIENCE
Geez, thanks a lot. You report them as unskilled, then matchmaking pairs them up with lower elo players...meaning all the Kassadin's I've been seeing is because of you!!1! I hate you!!1!
"Unskilled player" literally does only 2 things: 1) let's you take out your rage without writing false reports 2) gives Riot data about matchmaking—no loss to their ELO, but maybe, just maybe if there's a influx in data of Kassadin reports, Riot will pay more attention to the importance of this issue to the community.

I wish Kass spammers had a special queue where they only can play with themselves (since all Kassadin players have Big-Truck-Small-Peen-Compensation Syndrome anyhow).

Luckily he's been catching on in popularity on SR and TT (possibly hastening a fix?). You should see the QQing about Kassadin being able to hop the Nexus wall on TT forums… we're not alone.


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NamKim

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCIENCE View Post
"Unskilled player" literally does only 2 things: 1) let's you take out your rage without writing false reports 2) gives Riot data about matchmaking—no loss to their ELO, but maybe, just maybe if there's a influx in data of Kassadin reports, Riot will pay more attention to the importance of this issue to the community.

I wish Kass spammers had a special queue where they only can play with themselves (since all Kassadin players have Big-Truck-Small-Peen-Compensation Syndrome anyhow).

Luckily he's been catching on in popularity on SR and TT (possibly hastening a fix?). You should see the QQing about Kassadin being able to hop the Nexus wall on TT forums… we're not alone.
Yes, I figured that with the recent popularity of Kass and a public demonstration of his insane blink ability that Riot will catch on. At the very least, Riot will probably make his ult harder to flash over walls he couldn't be able to. Which I consider a start.

Also, I apologize if you took my comment seriously. I said "Just kidding" at the end that you might have missed. I often love to tease some of the more well-known Dominion players, such as yourself.


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Sakuri Ono

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCIENCE View Post
I don't learn anything in games where there's a Kass.
You'll have to pardon me for picking you out directly to launch this counter (when I refer to 'you' and 'your' from after this paragraph I'm referring to a group of like minded people as a whole and not the individual 'SCIENCE'); but this is a mindset I've had issue with for a while and your statement summarizes the problem nicely.

Let me first set the level of perception straight:

-I agree that Kassadin's design is too favorable for Dominion's map design.
-I agree that any changes made to weaken Kassadin would be for the betterment of Dominion.
-I do not own nor do I play Kassadin.

However; I'm more than a little tired of this emotionally irrational line of Westboro-esque kneejerking to Kassadin players for choosing to utilize that champion. (And before anyone nitpicks my analogy please look at your actions in summary: 'I dislike this idea; therefore I am going out of my way to shame and picket against anyone who engages in that idea.')

The notion that Kassadin somehow 'damages' your experience as a gamer is false.
The notion that Kassadin players are a bane to the gameplay of 'serious players' is false.
The notion that you learn nothing from Kassadin existing in a game is false.

LoL as a whole is a tactical game; one requiring you to possess no shortcomings in the skill of 'combat logic', similar to other games in that category such as Chess, Risk, ect. In order to better yourself at the game you have three primary areas in which you can strengthen yourself.

-Mechanical skill; MS. (Reaction times, ability to execute combos, ect.)
-Theory; T. (Builds, counter picking, studying the finite points of maps and champions outside of actually playing, ect.)
-Tactical Prowess; TP. (Reading your opponent, map awareness, combat strategies, ect.)

In particular I choose to focus on MS and TP. Your ability to improve these categories comes as you play the game longer. However it is not just the quantity of the games that contributes to making you a stronger player; but quality factors in just as much, if not more, to the result of how much have I learned.

First to clarify, 'quality' does not refer to an 'evenly matched game' as the pinnacle. You are not striving for similarity in all the games you play to improve. Quite the opposite, you need diversity in the gameplay experience to learn far more than you would otherwise. As such, all game-quality scenarios are required. Poorly matched games, even games, and favorably matched games.

-The games where factors are entirely in your favor (champion power, team skill, ect.) teach you how and where to press your advantages, where/why not to over extend despite generally superior odds, which mistakes your opponents make that you yourself shouldn't make in the future, ect.

-The games where everything is evenly matched helps you build skills in matters involving longer game sessions, stalemate breaker tactics, extended teamwork building, and many, many other things.

-But, in games where the odds are completely against you (I.E: The aforementioned Kassadin), you still are completely able to learn things. Having to engage in battle from a position of inferiority teaches you ways to utilize your lesser resources to their utmost potential in order to fight back. You have to experiment with new tactics and counters that you may've never thought of before. You have to learn to suppress your 'panic mode' and 'self-defeatism' when pushed into a corner of desperation. And all these things you learn from this scenario? They trickle over into the other states of gameplay; thereby improving your skill level across all fronts.

_______________

So; by holing up in a corner and isolating yourself from these sub-optimal game states you are actually not learning anything at all. By attempting to ostracize those scenarios from the community as a whole you not only deny yourself the chance for betterment; but you also deny it to the other 4 people playing with you on a team. Without that experience, there cannot be learning. Without learning, there cannot be an increase of skill. Without an increase in skill, there can only be stagnation and degradation.

Thus; when you really think about it. Isn't the only 'Unskilled Player' in that battlefield the one who jams their fingers in their ears and refuses to learn anything from the lesson being taught?


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Sauron

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCIENCE View Post
"Unskilled player" literally does only 2 things: 1) let's you take out your rage without writing false reports 2) gives Riot data about matchmaking—no loss to their ELO, but maybe, just maybe if there's a influx in data of Kassadin reports, Riot will pay more attention to the importance of this issue to the community.
I'm not going to get into the Kassadin discussion, but when Dominion Elo was visible Unskilled Player reports did absolutely nothing to it, even when testing over the course of several games in case there was a delayed effect. These reports also never go to Tribunal. Thus, we can assume that Unskilled Player reports do one of the following:

1). Lowers a person's SR normal rating.
2). Nothing.


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Rewenger

Senior Member

01-29-2013

I play Talon and I have 99 problems, but Kassadin ain't one.

AD casters or jumpers with CC shut Kassadin down hard. Anyone who can make him pay for coming in close. Talon, Zed, Irelia, Diana, Garen, Xin Zhao, Renekton, Pantheon etc. It doesn't solve the problem of his mobility, but if you jump+CC Kass and ping him, he will die.


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IDontWasteFood

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakuri Ono View Post
You'll have to pardon me for picking you out directly to launch this counter (when I refer to 'you' and 'your' from after this paragraph I'm referring to a group of like minded people as a whole and not the individual 'SCIENCE'); but this is a mindset I've had issue with for a while and your statement summarizes the problem nicely.

Let me first set the level of perception straight:

-I agree that Kassadin's design is too favorable for Dominion's map design.
-I agree that any changes made to weaken Kassadin would be for the betterment of Dominion.
-I do not own nor do I play Kassadin.

However; I'm more than a little tired of this emotionally irrational line of Westboro-esque kneejerking to Kassadin players for choosing to utilize that champion. (And before anyone nitpicks my analogy please look at your actions in summary: 'I dislike this idea; therefore I am going out of my way to shame and picket against anyone who engages in that idea.')

The notion that Kassadin somehow 'damages' your experience as a gamer is false.
The notion that Kassadin players are a bane to the gameplay of 'serious players' is false.
The notion that you learn nothing from Kassadin existing in a game is false.

LoL as a whole is a tactical game; one requiring you to possess no shortcomings in the skill of 'combat logic', similar to other games in that category such as Chess, Risk, ect. In order to better yourself at the game you have three primary areas in which you can strengthen yourself.

-Mechanical skill; MS. (Reaction times, ability to execute combos, ect.)
-Theory; T. (Builds, counter picking, studying the finite points of maps and champions outside of actually playing, ect.)
-Tactical Prowess; TP. (Reading your opponent, map awareness, combat strategies, ect.)

In particular I choose to focus on MS and TP. Your ability to improve these categories comes as you play the game longer. However it is not just the quantity of the games that contributes to making you a stronger player; but quality factors in just as much, if not more, to the result of how much have I learned.

First to clarify, 'quality' does not refer to an 'evenly matched game' as the pinnacle. You are not striving for similarity in all the games you play to improve. Quite the opposite, you need diversity in the gameplay experience to learn far more than you would otherwise. As such, all game-quality scenarios are required. Poorly matched games, even games, and favorably matched games.

-The games where factors are entirely in your favor (champion power, team skill, ect.) teach you how and where to press your advantages, where/why not to over extend despite generally superior odds, which mistakes your opponents make that you yourself shouldn't make in the future, ect.

-The games where everything is evenly matched helps you build skills in matters involving longer game sessions, stalemate breaker tactics, extended teamwork building, and many, many other things.

-But, in games where the odds are completely against you (I.E: The aforementioned Kassadin), you still are completely able to learn things. Having to engage in battle from a position of inferiority teaches you ways to utilize your lesser resources to their utmost potential in order to fight back. You have to experiment with new tactics and counters that you may've never thought of before. You have to learn to suppress your 'panic mode' and 'self-defeatism' when pushed into a corner of desperation. And all these things you learn from this scenario? They trickle over into the other states of gameplay; thereby improving your skill level across all fronts.

_______________

So; by holing up in a corner and isolating yourself from these sub-optimal game states you are actually not learning anything at all. By attempting to ostracize those scenarios from the community as a whole you not only deny yourself the chance for betterment; but you also deny it to the other 4 people playing with you on a team. Without that experience, there cannot be learning. Without learning, there cannot be an increase of skill. Without an increase in skill, there can only be stagnation and degradation.

Thus; when you really think about it. Isn't the only 'Unskilled Player' in that battlefield the one who jams their fingers in their ears and refuses to learn anything from the lesson being taught?
wouldnever,ever,EVER,read.gif

I downvoted you for typing whatever the hell that is.


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TempNam325rwe5

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakuri Ono View Post
Tl;but read
Sakuri Ono, I think you're taking 'nothing' a little too literally.

Sure you can become more proficient at individual things as well as teamwork, but 'Kassadin' is currently a 'known issue' with the game (this is why the Dominion threads are overstocked with Kass QQ threads and all rejoiced at Good Guy Nome for the mere utterance of possible nerfs/fixes).

Currently with draft extinct there is no way getting Kassadin-less matches outside in-houses (which have a perma-autoban on that champ and that champ alone) and the weekly DominateDominion tournament. Sure, I'm not even close to top dog at Dominion. Sure, my team hardly even breaks into quarter finals. But guess what: we think playing Dominion as competitively as possible is a lot of fun. A champion that never sees the light of day in tournament play that's admittedly overpowered—even by Riot—does not teach you something relevant in tournament play (whether you find it legitimate or not). Sure you can learn 'the value of teamwork' in CCing and bursting a Kass together, but it's a champion that's pretty much admitted by most here as counterless (except another, better Kassadin). No other champ has that kind of mobility and ability to nuke-assassinate while building mostly tank. You might be able to predict where a Kassadin will go next, but unless you're TF, Panth, Noct or Shen using your precious, long-cooldown ultimate, you won't be able to get there in time.

Another issue is that at the end of the day, you have a giant DEFEAT to stare at after the match. You certainly can learn from losses and mistakes, but too often you outplay the enemy a majority of the match, but Kassadin ganked bot again and 10 seconds later got to clean up a what should have been a 4v3 fight at windmill—and he'll do this all game long. That defeat just lost you ELO. I'm not trying to ladder climb for ladder-climbing's sake, but I'd still like to play against the better players of this community and learn things from the group of summoners a rung above me. This won't happen if for every game matchmaking throws me against a Kassadin, the odds are that I'm going to have to win two matches now to have a net gain in ELO to have better matchmaking.

I can't think of a single person I've played with that didn't grumble or sigh at the sight of Captain Riftwalker on the loading screen. You have to put on your hardest try pants and cross your fingers that he's truly an 'unskilled player' because he always has the upper hand.

I think you're missing the point about the difference in what you will learn from merely trying in any match and what tactics work in competitive play. 'Nothing' is an overstatement for dramatic effect; 'nothing relevant to tourney play' is more along the lines of the truth. I'm not concerned about the dick-waving contest aspect of climbing Dominion's invisible ladder, so why would anything outside tourney play be relevant? That would be like learning to play soccer with your hands—it's a broken tactic that nothing's stopping you from doing or learning how to counter a dude tucking the ball like it was football, but you'll never be able to do it or see it in a 'real' match. (I'm not the best at analogies—or sports)


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