Teemo needs a buff... in my opinion

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Kyu Ryu

Senior Member

01-28-2013

His auto attack range needs to be increased to 550. No squishy champ that relies on auto attacks so much should have a range as short as 500. You could also try a base health increase of 10-45 as well as a base health regen increase if 0.45 . Finally I just want to point out that for toxic shot DPS to have the same scaling as AD but using AP instead (using malady and 5% offensive talent); toxic shots base AP ratio would have to 0.43. For reference it is currently 0.3. That is a huge lack of scaling in toxic shots DPS. I understand there is a dot component to it but the dot does not benefit from attack speed.

To give you a reference. If you exclude the dot and assume the teemo has malady and 5% offensive talent which is not always the case. Teemo's auto attacks scale 22.5% slower then any other ADC in the game. If you don't assume malady and offensive talent then teemo attacks scale 48.333% slower then any other ADC in the game.

If you have a teemo attacking at 1.5 attacks a second and decide to include the dot along with assuming 5% talent and malady then teemo's auto attacks scale 11.119% slower then any other ADC auto attacks in the game in terms of DPS.


A general problem teemo has is that he has nerfs to keep and items from being broken on him but it was done for several different items. There is no way a teemo could ever reasonably get all these items in a reasonable amount of time so in essence his abilities were over nerfed.


Another issues complicating balance of teemo is that ramaans hurricane allows him to transfer far larger portions of his dps to side targets then other ADC can so to balance Riot is severely nerfing his single target DPS, however this nerf on his single target dps is greatly effecting his playability. A possible fix to this is change ramaans hurricane from extra 2 targets at 50% each to 1 extra target at 100%.


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Carbon Khaos088

Member

01-28-2013

Teemo does NOT need a buff.... If anything, he needs a nerf. People yell at me for playing Teemo all the time because I can go 27-8 with him easily... You just aren't playing him correctly. He's an easy character to play, just difficult to master. You evidently have yet to reach that point of skill. If you build him AP and throw in a Runaan's Hurricane, you'll be doing a decent amount with your autos, shooting really fast, and you have the extra DoT Poison.

Teemo's poison: The purpose of this poison isn't to diminish the health of the enemy, but to use for pokes and making a dent in their health, telling them to back off because Teemo is ready to fight.

Teemo's stealth: End game, when there is a team fight, and say you have a Teemo on your team. That Teemo decides to run between the enemies and their base, and then stealthing until they run away. Once the fight is over, if any have survived, Teemo waits patiently to rip through anybody's health.

Not only that, but he can put his shrooms down for retreat points in case either a.) Teemo is being chased or b.) Teemo is chasing an enemy and wants them slowed. Believe it or not, his shrooms are potential game winners, as they can be tripped when enemies retreat from low health and kill them.

ANOTHER thing is that he himself can be a human ward, or use his shrooms for map awareness, and this is always a plus.

In conclusion, Teemo shreds through health even when he's AP, just throw in a little speed, and he is very OP and can carry games.

Now, please explain to me how he is so underpowered as you say.


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Carbon Khaos088

Member

01-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyu Ryu View Post
His auto attack range needs to be increased to 550. No squishy champ that relies on auto attacks so much should have a range as short as 500. You could also try a base health increase of 10-45 as well as a base health regen increase if 0.45 . Finally I just want to point out that for toxic shot DPS to have the same scaling as AD but using AP instead (using malady and 5% offensive talent); toxic shots base AP ratio would have to 0.43. For reference it is currently 0.3. That is a huge lack of scaling in toxic shots DPS. I understand there is a dot component to it but the dot does not benefit from attack speed.

To give you a reference. If you exclude the dot and assume the teemo has malady and 5% offensive talent which is not always the case. Teemo's auto attacks scale 22.5% slower then any other ADC in the game. If you don't assume malady and offensive talent then teemo attacks scale 48.333% slower then any other ADC in the game.

If you have a teemo attacking at 1.5 attacks a second and decide to include the dot along with assuming 5% talent and malady then teemo's auto attacks scale 11.119% slower then any other ADC auto attacks in the game in terms of DPS.


A general problem teemo has is that he has nerfs to keep and items from being broken on him but it was done for several different items. There is no way a teemo could ever reasonably get all these items in a reasonable amount of time so in essence his abilities were over nerfed.


Another issues complicating balance of teemo is that ramaans hurricane allows him to transfer far larger portions of his dps to side targets then other ADC can so to balance Riot is severely nerfing his single target DPS, however this nerf on his single target dps is greatly effecting his playability. A possible fix to this is change ramaans hurricane from extra 2 targets at 50% each to 1 extra target at 100%.

His range is perfectly fine at 500, because if it were any longer, he'd have a lot more OP poking. I'd assume Riot chose 500 as his range because even though it's not that long of a range, he does have that poison that makes more of an impact while going through a poking phase. Champions that have longer range don't really have "poisons" or DoTs to do more damage, so Teemo is played a little more aggressively because of this, though it will be a risk, as he is squishy.


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workthecorners

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbon Khaos088 View Post
Teemo's poison: The purpose of this poison isn't to diminish the health of the enemy, but to use for pokes and making a dent in their health, telling them to back off because Teemo is ready to fight..
I pick singed and rush a Null-Magic Mantle and watch the pokemon poke to his hearts content as i super farm and heal anything he does to me. By 10 minutes i have 150 cs and hes at 60 and i just destroy his team and watch them QQ

teemo counter singed lol thats a laugh

a little mr and teemo does nothing for poke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbon Khaos088 View Post
Teemo's stealth: End game, when there is a team fight, and say you have a Teemo on your team. That Teemo decides to run between the enemies and their base, and then stealthing until they run away. Once the fight is over, if any have survived, Teemo waits patiently to rip through anybody's health..
So your expecting your team to fight 4v5 and win? if thats working then your opponents were terrible and shouldnt be used for examples

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbon Khaos088 View Post
Not only that, but he can put his shrooms down for retreat points in case either a.) Teemo is being chased or b.) Teemo is chasing an enemy and wants them slowed. Believe it or not, his shrooms are potential game winners, as they can be tripped when enemies retreat from low health and kill them..
agreed but shrooms are potential LUCKY game winners you can have mushrooms at every chokepoint on the map they dont do anything if your opponent pushes mid and destroys your team. OR again builds just a little mr


Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbon Khaos088 View Post
ANOTHER thing is that he himself can be a human ward, or use his shrooms for map awareness, and this is always a plus..
yup only benefit to teemo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbon Khaos088 View Post
In conclusion, Teemo shreds through health even when he's AP, just throw in a little speed, and he is very OP and can carry games.

Now, please explain to me how he is so underpowered as you say.
Even? when hes ap? if you build him any other way he isnt viable at all?

teemo isnt under powered as much as he needs to be reworked.

his passive and his e should be switched allowing him to turn invisible on command with a cooldown but his poison wouldnt level up

his mushrooms should be buffed a little (not as much as they used to be but more then they are now) but they should have a 5 minute timer on them not 10. also teemo should be able to lay mushrooms without stopping giving him a little more team fight potential.

and as for why he isnt viable i will quote myself here cus i dont feel like typing it

Quote:
Originally Posted by workthecorners View Post
teemo is basically useless in a teamfight single target damage at short range. Unless you are fighting in a mushroom field. his only use is a 2 second blind. if he dosnt get fed and snowball he's basically a liability all game. even if teemo shuts down a Darius in lane, if darius played smart and didn't feed teemo darius will be more uesfull late game dunking people.

I used to main teemo untill I realized I could be so much more useful to my team at the cost of a little more work during laning phase.


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Irish Red Cap

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Why do people still build AP teemo, he's squishy, he's mana hunrgy, and they nerfed the shrooms to hell and back multiple times. first removing spell vamp from them and then nerfing damage. Tank/on-hit is by far the only way to effectively play teemo. You can pretty much 1v1 anyone in the game thanks to move quick and blind dart and just like Nidalee they have to commit someone to stop your pushing or you can just ward (shroom) their entire jungle and have the lane to yourself post 6. He doesn't need a buff, he doesn't need a nerf anymore. He's fine where he is people just QQ


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Tsabo

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteHatCracker View Post
Why do people still build AP teemo, he's squishy, he's mana hunrgy, and they nerfed the shrooms to hell and back multiple times. first removing spell vamp from them and then nerfing damage. Tank/on-hit is by far the only way to effectively play teemo. You can pretty much 1v1 anyone in the game thanks to move quick and blind dart and just like Nidalee they have to commit someone to stop your pushing or you can just ward (shroom) their entire jungle and have the lane to yourself post 6. He doesn't need a buff, he doesn't need a nerf anymore. He's fine where he is people just QQ
I agree with the first part, AP Teemo is useless against a good team, about Tanky On-hit being able to 1v1 anyone in the game, that's not true, he's split pushing is good but not the best, there are more champs who do it better and with less risk. Teemo is still just a counter-pick for like 5-6 champs in top-lane, he's not a safe pick, because even if he's a good counter to some champs, there are more champs who can counter-them or play it even and be useful late-game.

Pretty much why would you pick Teemo if you can pick a champ who will help the team.


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RadiantPyrophore

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzabo View Post
I think most people don't understand why Teemo players say "Teemo isn't OP, Teemo is UP", i'll try to explain you guys the best i can.

All started (well it started years ago, but it's not necessary to tell the whole story) when Pre-Season started, tons of new items, changes, masteries, blablabla, most champions got some benefit from this, Teemo wasn't the exception. So here was this new item Lyandri's Torment, this item was really useful to AP Teemo and well, everyone hates Teemo and his shrooms, so this alerted Riot's Radar and they nerfed Teemo's Shrooms base damage AND Teemo's E Ratio, but there's something they forgot about this. There's more than just one build for our little Yordle, There's Tanky, On-hit, Hybrid, AP and probably there's a lot more, some of this builds get little to no AP, others don't get AP at all, this builds need the base damage to "succeed", we created some threads in GD and Champion Feedback, with no response.

Let me ask something, if this nerfs were aimed to AP Teemo, why would you nerf the Base Damage instead the Ratio?. If they wanted to decrease Teemo's annoyance, why would you turn Lyandri's Torment into a must item for Teemo? you know, if you nerf a champion because of an item, that item becomes a must.

Every day more people stop playing him with Hybrid. Tanky or other builds and start building AP, since it's the only way to succeed with him now.

TL;DR: We don't think AP Teemo sucks, it's OK, but not everyone plays him like that, he has probably like 4-5 legit builds and with every single nerf you keep throwing at Teemo, they become more and more useless, that's why we complain.
Problem is, between Teemo's shroom being a dot longer than three seconds, and also having a built in slow meant that that shroom would do its own damage plus 12% of your current HP, which was just way too damn much. Hit one shroom and you pretty much had to go back to base or be at serious risk of dying instantly in a team fight. Add to that the increased cost of MR, the rise in HP stacking, and the massive epic rape/nerf of oracles and what do you get? Way, way, way too much for way too little effort and with little counterplay being at all effective.


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workthecorners

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteHatCracker View Post
Why do people still build AP teemo, he's squishy, he's mana hunrgy, and they nerfed the shrooms to hell and back multiple times. first removing spell vamp from them and then nerfing damage. Tank/on-hit is by far the only way to effectively play teemo. You can pretty much 1v1 anyone in the game thanks to move quick and blind dart and just like Nidalee they have to commit someone to stop your pushing or you can just ward (shroom) their entire jungle and have the lane to yourself post 6. He doesn't need a buff, he doesn't need a nerf anymore. He's fine where he is people just QQ
even if you build tanky on hit with teemo their team will start a teamfight and just walk right around you and kill your team basically making a 4v5 then kill you last. yes you can split push but other champs like shen olaf yi can do it better cus of their ult that gets them back to the team in time for a teamfight in which they can contribute to not just attack one person, and because you built tanky you dont do as much damage so you might not even kill vayne before their team kills your team

the reason tanks build tanky is bacuse thay have cc to stop you....if you try to walk past an alistar to get to his vayne he is going to ground slam you and if you dont get blown up right away he will hedbut you away. Darius blitz can grab, maokai can lockdown knockback and slow so on and so fourth. tanky teemo is useless


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Tsabo

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantPyrophore View Post
Problem is, between Teemo's shroom being a dot longer than three seconds, and also having a built in slow meant that that shroom would do its own damage plus 12% of your current HP, which was just way too damn much. Hit one shroom and you pretty much had to go back to base or be at serious risk of dying instantly in a team fight. Add to that the increased cost of MR, the rise in HP stacking, and the massive epic rape/nerf of oracles and what do you get? Way, way, way too much for way too little effort and with little counterplay being at all effective.
And as i said before, no one is complaining about that, maybe AP Teemo was strong, but that's not a reason to nerf all of his builds. Actually, the only build that got benefits from preseason was AP, Tanky On-hit was nerfed, Hybrid was nerfed too, indirectly, obvious, but still nerfs, that''s why we complain, they have to consider the other builds too, not just AP.


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DingoHedge

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Uuuuh while i really do love my heinous little poison chucker i really don't think he needs a buff. Add any more damage to him and i'll start to hate myself for playing him.